[News UP] Lee Jae-myung's first trial was sentenced today...What is the key issue that will determine fate?

■ Host: Anchor Cho Jin-hyuk
■ Starring: Lawyer Park Sung-bae

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN News UP] when quoting.

[Anchor]
This afternoon, Democratic Party Chairman Lee Jae-myung will be sentenced to the first trial for violating the Public Official Election Act. If a fine of more than 1 million won is confirmed, he will lose his parliamentary seat and the next presidential election will not be possible. Let's point out the key issues with lawyer Park Sung-bae. Please come in. First trial of violation of the Public Official Election Act. Even if the ruling comes out in the first trial, you have to go all the way to the Supreme Court to determine what will happen to the parliamentary seats and conservation funds. First of all, it is the first of the four trials that CEO Lee Jae-myung is receiving. Can you tell me in detail that you made a false statement?

[Park Sung-bae]
It is suspected of publicizing false information for public office election level. There are two charges, the first saying that he did not know the late Director Kim Moon-ki when he was mayor at the time of the broadcast interview, and the second was that he threatened the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport to change the site in Baekhyun-dong, saying that if the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport did not do it, it would be a dereliction of duty.

[Anchor]
The prosecution claims that there is a picture of the late Kim Moon-ki and Lee Jae-myung during their overseas business trip, so they couldn't have known. And it is difficult to objectively prove that representative Lee Jae-myung does not know Andawa. I'm making the argument right now. Which side of the court is a little more credible?

[Park Sung-bae]
First of all, regarding the late Director Kim Moon-ki, the prosecution has had a special relationship with Lee Jae-myung for 12 years. In particular, since he has had special experiences such as overseas golf and fishing, he insists that Lee Jae-myung cannot help but know the late former deputy director Kim Moon-ki. On the other hand, CEO Lee Jae-myung confronts that above all, it is the area of talent that knows and does not know, so it is subject to subjective recognition and cannot be proved.

Regarding the case, the prosecution presented photos taken by Lee Jae-myung with the late Director Kim Moon-ki and interrogated former Director Yoo Dong-kyu as a witness to testify, but in this process, Lee Jae-myung is confronting with the intention that it is a subjective area that cannot be proven. Another thing is that in the remarks related to the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport, it is an area that is relatively easy to prove from the perspective of the prosecution, unlike knowing or not knowing this part. Above all, employees of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport and Seongnam City Hall generally made statements contrary to Lee Jae-myung in court.
However, when presenting the official letter of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport, Lee Jae-myung countered that his remarks at the time were dereliction of duty, and that the overall purpose of his remarks was true because the exact term did not come up.

However, regarding this case, the Supreme Court needs to refer to the case of publicizing false information under the 2020 Public Official Election Act, and this case was also a case in which representative Lee Jae-myung was the defendant. Unlike speeches, discussions have spontaneous questions and answers.

It was a precedent that even if some inaccurate expressions were involved in the process, it could not be easily punished by publicizing false facts, especially if it was a true opinion or abstract judgment, and if the judgment was ambiguous, it should be judged by opinion or abstract judgment in favor of the defendant.

In this case, above all, news interviews can be said to be an improvised space where questions and answers come and go, and if the remarks at the parliamentary audit were intended to answer questions, there is room for some of the precedents to be applied, but the prosecution is conscious of this, and rather, Representative Lee Jae-myung has repeatedly planned and made false statements in advance.

[Anchor]
Then, the part where Lee Jae-myung said he did not know Director Kim Moon-ki. In addition, can the National Assembly's audit also consider the judgment of whether the parts I said I was threatened with due to dereliction of duty were improvised or deliberately made remarks as a major issue for the court?

[Park Sang-bae]
Depending on the issue, it will be revealed whether it was intentional, and depending on whether it was intentional or not, whether it was a crime is established. There's a script for the news interview.Ma can ask the anchor what he needs at any time, and in the process of answering that question, he may not be able to use the correct terminology.

The main issue seems to be whether it was simply this level or whether the anchor had an intention to say that I didn't know this person even if he asked any questions beyond that level. In addition, during the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport's audit process, whether the remarks themselves reached the level of evaluating the ministry's actions by their own standards, or whether there was a situation in which the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport should plan to intimidate and prepare related grounds if such questions were asked in advance.

[Anchor]
To put it simply, was CEO Lee aware of the falsehood at the time, which is the main issue. Prosecutors asked for two years in prison. How many sentences are usually based on false information?

[Park Sung-bae]
The main concern is, above all, whether false statements under the Public Official Election Act will be sentenced to a fine of more than 1 million won, which will begin to restrict the right to run for election. The basic sentencing criteria are a fine of 2 million won to 8 million won for up to 10 months in prison. If it is partially reduced, the fine is recommended from 700,000 won to 3 million won.

Above all, sentencing standards are important, but they are aggravated if the election day is imminent. However, at the time, the remarks were not very close to election day. On the other hand, it is aggravated when very radioactive means are used, but it can be evaluated that it was a very radioactive situation in light of the broadcast interview or the live broadcast of the National Audit Office.

The most important factor is whether it was a very important judgment for voters. Whether the voter could make a different judgment depending on whether the remarks were true or not. Whether it was a decisive factor in voting during the presidential election process can be said to be an important reason for sentencing.

[Anchor]
Now, we have to go to the Supreme Court according to the conclusion of the sentence, but we can see that there are three ways to go, so isn't the standard a fine of 1 million won? What kind of scenario will unfold depending on whether it exceeds 1 million won or not?

[Park Sung-bae]
Once a fine of more than 1 million won is sentenced and confirmed, the right to run for election will be restricted for the next five years. As a result, Lee Jae-myung will not be able to run in the upcoming presidential election. In addition, according to the National Assembly Act, he naturally retired from his position as a member of the National Assembly, and this is a problem that arose during the presidential election process.

Problems arise in which the Democratic Party of Korea has to return 43.4 billion won, which was preserved in the last presidential election, to the NEC. In this case, guilt or innocence is important, but how much sentence will be sentenced is more important, and even if the court has a conviction, it seems that there will be considerable concern about whether this statement has reached the point of depriving the right to run for election.

If you judge that you have reached that level, you will be fined 1 million won, and if you judge that you have not reached that level, you will be fined less than 1 million won. Some believe that it is not an offense that deprives them of their right to run for election, while others have denied the charges outright and said that if convicted, a fine of more than 1 million won should be sentenced in light of their attitude toward investigation and trial.

[Anchor]
So, the standard of 1 million won is important, but even if it comes out less than 1 million won, then some of the guilty are admitted, so a political debate is inevitable, I think we can look at it like this. On the other hand, he said he would apply for seizure of this part because the power of the people could throw up 43.4 billion won in election reserves. Is this possible?

[Park Sung-bae]
The election cost can be said to be the cost that the NEC compensated each party and compensated if it obtained more than a certain turnout. There is a difficulty in seeing the power of the people as a party to the case. Above all, if a fine of more than 1 million won is sentenced and confirmed as it is, the NEC will immediately take measures to recover the funds it has preserved. In the process, the people's power may be a party that enjoys some reflective effects, but there seems to be no legal right to claim the return of expenses, so even if the people's power comes forward and applies for seizure, it is highly likely to be dismissed. It seems more reasonable to see this as a political agenda.

[Anchor]
However, he was indicted on September 8, 2020, and it took more than two years for the first trial to come out. I don't think the issue is that complicated, but why did it take so long?

[Park Sung-bae]
The trial in this case has lasted two years and two months, and 27 trials have been conducted. In the process, CEO Lee Jae-myung denies the allegations altogether. If the defendant completely denies the allegations, he or she will also disagree with the evidence on the statements of various reference persons prepared during the investigation process.

In that case, the prosecution must go through the process of calling out the witnesses who cooperated with the investigation as witnesses to the court. The prosecution can submit the statement to the court as evidence of guilt only when they appear as witnesses and confirm that the statement written during the investigation is properly prepared as stated.

The investigation record was quite long as the allegations were completely denied, and the witness questioning seems to have been conducted several times. In the process, the number of trials increased considerably. The issue of the presiding judge resigning was also raised. In this process, it took a considerable amount of time from the first trial to two years and two months. Even considering the vast amount of investigation records that the investigation records amount to 10,000 pages, there is a feeling that the trial has increased somewhat.

However, there are mandatory regulations for the trial period under the Public Official Election Act. There is a mandatory provision that the first trial must be sentenced within six months from the time of prosecution, and the second and third trials must be sentenced within three months from the date of the pre-trial judgment. It's like you're breaking this. In fact, most of the issues are settled in the first trial, which is the case with all cases.

If the first trial is sentenced, the appeals court and the Supreme Court's judgment won't take long, so of course, we'll have to wait until the confirmation after today's first trial.Ma cannot rule out the possibility that in the worst case, Lee Jae-myung will be deprived of his right to run for election before the presidential election if the second and third trials comply with the mandatory regulations under the Public Official Election Act and sentence them within a short period of time.

[Anchor]
From what I hear, if the final trial proceeds according to the mandatory regulations, all of this could be over within six months. A large-scale outdoor rally is scheduled in front of the court today. Can this put pressure on the court?

[Park Sung-bae]
It shouldn't act as pressure, but it's going to be psychological pressure. However, it is difficult to say that the degree of psychological pressure is the level that affects the outcome of the judgment. There is no evidence that the outcome of the judgment has changed according to the outdoor assembly. However, it is true that the court itself feels considerable psychological pressure, so today the court will specifically strengthen security and send security personnel to the three judges on their way home from work.

In the first place, the trial itself was held in a small court with 30 spectators' seats, but the sentence was changed to a 100-seat heavy court. It's also to accommodate a large number of people in the audience.In fact, heavy court management is more useful. I also visit the Seoul Central District Court for business, and while the small court is a relatively open space, the double court is more thorough in security management and the path itself is quite narrow. Considering these circumstances, there is also a justification for increasing the number of audience seats, but the court itself seems to have changed in terms of security management.

[Anchor]
The war clouds are circulating enough to care about security, so I think we can sort it out like this. Let's move on to Myung Taekyun. Myung Tae-kyun, a key figure in the alleged intervention of the nomination, and former lawmaker Kim Young-sun were arrested. Can you explain the reason for the arrest?

[Park Sung-bae]
First of all, the court issued an arrest warrant for Myung Tae-kyun and former lawmaker Kim Young-sun, considering the possibility of criminal charges being cleared and the possibility of destroying evidence. Above all, in the case of Myung Tae-kyun, the fact that he had three mobile phones disposed of through his brother-in-law is highly likely to recur. And in the case of former lawmaker Kim Young-sun, it seems that there is a high concern of destroying evidence, such as changing mobile phones and disappearing three times when the investigation into the case was initiated.

However, in the case of local election primaries who were also requested for arrest warrants, there was room for dispute over whether the crime was established and the arrest warrants were dismissed to guarantee defense rights, but the reason why the arrest warrants were rejected does not seem to rule out the possibility that they were deceived by Myung Tae-kyun.

In other words, it seems to have taken into account some of the circumstances that he was deceived in a situation where he simply demanded money, not considering nomination, but this seems to be an issue that should be contested in the future trial.

[Anchor]
Just because you're in custody doesn't mean you're guilty. If so, shouldn't the prosecution who secured the recruits investigate and prove the charges? Which way will the investigation proceed?

[Park Sung-bae]
This case consists of three main axes. Yoon Suk Yeol Myung Tae-kyun conducted an illegal poll of presidential candidates at the time, and former lawmaker Kim Young-sun won the nomination in return. Former lawmaker Kim Young-sun has transferred 76 million won, or half of his salary, to Myung Tae-kyun through accounting officer Kang Hye-kyung in return.

Finally, the candidates for local elections compensated for 240 million won in illegal public opinion polls for the presidential election. Arrest warrants relating to the flow of funds for the second and third of these three axes have been issued or dismissed.

This does not rule out the possibility of going further to the first axis. Now that the flow of funds has been confirmed and some criminal charges have been partially cleared, whether illegal polls have actually been conducted. And the investigation is likely to expand to whether the presidential office was involved in the selection of the second national industrial complex in Changwon. Regarding suspicions of meddling in the nomination, there is a high possibility that the investigation into Lee Joon-seok, former chairman of the emergency committee Kim Jong-in, and Yoon Sang-hyun, who were then representatives of the National Assembly, will be expanded, and in fact, the prosecution is fully considering investigating them.

[Anchor]
Let's stop here. We have pointed out the issues of the first trial of Lee Jae-myung and the overall suspicion of intervening in the nomination. I was with lawyer Park Sung-bae. Thank you.