There was another "Hamburger meeting."Will the truth of martial law discussions be revealed?

■ Host: Kim Sun-young Anchor
■ Appearance: Kim Jin, former Editorial Writer at JoongAng Ilbo, Choi Chang-ryul, Special Professor at Yongin University

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN NewsNOW] when quoting.

[Anchor]
Political commentary with a living angle, let's start at the minute. Today, we have Kim Jin, a former editor of the JoongAng Ilbo, and Choi Chang-ryul, a special professor at Yongin University. Welcome. The Government of Yoon Suk Yeol issued a second summons notice to the President of the Republic of Korea. I've set the date for Christmas.

[Kim Jin]
Christmas is a public holiday next Wednesday. To set such a date, the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit strongly demonstrates its will to investigate.

[Anchor]
You won't even take a holiday?

[Kim Jin]
That's right. The Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit has been criticized for various reasons. It has been pointed out that the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit has been investigating for too long in the case of Corporal Chae, so it has been dispelled. Once you do it on holiday, you show off your will to investigate. And there's a possibility that there won't be any special political news that day. But if you comply with the summons, the news will be plastered all over and the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit can be at the center of the newsmaker, I think this is the calculation.

[Anchor]
Anyway, by setting the date like this, all Korean journalists have to wait for Christmas, but this is the problem now. I didn't even receive the first attendance request. This is the part about whether the president of Yoon Suk Yeol will come out.

[Choi Chang Ryul]
Christmas is just around the corner. It's next Wednesday, so there are only a few days left, but given the current attitude of President Yoon's response, I think he may not respond to the summons on the 25th. As lawyer Seok Dong-hyun held a press conference yesterday, the lawyers were not formed. Since the lawyers have not been formed, it is a justification that they cannot respond to the summons because the lawyers have not been formed yet. So I wonder if I'll be able to respond to this with only a few days left. Anyway, it seems that President Yoon or President Yoon are trying to delay the impeachment trial somehow.

In a way, of course, it can happen from your point of view. There are many variables, including the appointment of judges. It's equivalent to Article 51 of the Constitutional Court Act, and when it goes on at the same time as the criminal prosecution trial, it can be stopped, so I think I'm trying to make the most of it, from now on. Then, I might not be able to comply with the summons on Christmas. Because it's a holiday. Everyone is going to watch it at home. I think that could be burdensome for President Yoon.

[Anchor]
The date will also be meaningful. What the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit has set for Christmas is... So, as you said now, there are many stinging eyes such as whether they are implementing a delay strategy, and on the other hand, it will not be easy to set up a lawyer now. There's also a view like this. How do you see it?

[Kim Jin]
Prosecutor Yoon Suk Yeol, who served as the head of the Central Investigation Department of the Supreme Prosecutors' Office, was the head of the Central Investigation Dep Kim Hong-il, former chairman of the Korea Communications Commission, decided to serve as a lawyer, but by comparison, the person who served as special counsel for President Park Geun Hye was Park Young-soo, and the person who actually served as the investigation team leader was prosecutor Yoon Suk Yeol. So this time, former Chairman Kim Hong-il will be a symbolic person who acts as the leader of the defense team like Special Prosecutor Park Young-soo, and lawyer Seok Dong-hyun will probably take charge of the working team. Like a Yoon Suk Yeol team leader in the past. The irony of history. Lawyer Seok Dong-hyun is in the same year as President Yoon Suk Yeol's law school at Seoul National University for 40 years, and wrote a book about President Yoon in the face of the last presidential election.

So, as soon as President Yoon took power, he went to a minister-level position called the secretary-general of the Advisory Council for Peace and Unification. And during the general election in April, the nomination was not possible in terms of the power of the people, so I went to Pastor Jeon Kwang-hoon's Free Unification Party and received a candidate for proportional representation. In the end, I failed. Therefore, forming a defense team is not really difficult in practice, but there is a delay that takes a little time, and refuses to receive various records from the overall Constitutional Court.I think I have a considerable sympathy with floor leader Kwon Sung-dong, who is the leader of the pro-Yoon faction, for refusing to comply with the summons.

[Anchor]
In what part?

[Kim Jin]
Floor leader Kwon Sung-dong is also using such a strategy to delay the hearing and decision of the Constitutional Court through various arguments. The acting president should not have the right to appoint a justice of the Constitutional Court, or other impeachment of President Yoon rather than impeachment, such as the impeachment of President Lee Jin-sook, president of the Korea Communications Commission, and the impeachment of the Board of Audit and Inspection. Since they are making such claims that the logic is a little weak, there are up to two between the pro-Yoon-gye Kwon Seong-dong and the Yoon Suk Yeol president, and one is delaying the Constitutional Court's decision and the investigation of civil war as much as possible. The second is that the prosecution has concluded and pushed the charges of hard rebellion in the process, but this is absolutely not the case. I think we're in a situation where we want to keep emphasizing that it's not a civil war.

[Anchor]
Anyway, lawyer Seok Dong-hyun, who has been around for 40 years, is at the forefront of the recent public opinion battle. Yesterday, in front of reporters, President Yoon Suk Yeol said that he didn't even bring up his arrest. Let's listen to it.

[Seok Dong-hyun / Legal Consultation for President Yoon Suk Yeol (Yesterday): The president declared emergency martial law through a press conference. If we really see this as a civil war, what can we do to herald a civil war? In addition, according to the constitutional procedure, the National Assembly's request for the lifting of martial law in two to three hours followed the constitutional procedure as president. Not only did the president never talk about the "body" of his arrest, but he did (arrested) or not, where on earth would he take him if he arrested him? ]

[Park Chan-dae / Minjoo Party floor leader: A former prosecutor-turned-president caused rebellion in violation of the Constitution, and a lawyer of 40 years made a sophistry that it was not a rebellion. How can you argue that there's no problem when it doesn't correspond at all to a national emergency? The part where there is a civil war that is left alone in two hours only makes me laugh in vain. It's amazing that Yoon Suk Yeol and lawyer Seok Dong-hyun, who were former prosecutors, are making such absurd sophistry. It's an obvious civil war if you only ran for 2 minutes instead of 2 hours. ]

[Anchor]
First of all, lawyer Seok Dong-hyun's argument is like that. President Yoon Suk Yeol claims that he has never even brought up an arrest, but if you collect the statements of the officials, you will doubt whether this statement is correct.

[Choi Chang Ryul]
I don't understand. First of all, the first deputy director of the National Intelligence Service, the former Special Forces commander Kwak Jong-geun, and the former police chief Jo Ji-ho. Now, that story is that many people's statements are a little similar. But lawyer Seok Dong-hyun said he didn't take out the arrest body, but isn't it that the president told him to take it out? But these people, generals, commanders, and deputy directors of the National Intelligence Service are almost identical. This will be finally revealed in court later.I mean, lawyer Seok Dong-hyun can't predict himself or me carelessly, but I can't infer. Lawyer Seok Dong-hyun probably knows that he's wrong. I don't think you're not going to watch the reports.

Anyway, lawyer Seok Dong-hyun is one of the main agents of the defense team. I think they're trying to stage a public opinion race. Looking at yesterday's press conference, there's not much information. It wasn't a meaningful press conference. If you think about why I had that press conference, I can see that it's a message to a small number of strong supporters anyway. I look at it in the same vein as the message that the President made on December 12th. So I didn't even take out the body of my arrest yesterday. How many people would believe this? I think that's a difficult thing to accept.

[Anchor]
The reason why he emphasized in front of reporters is that the order of arrest can be a key evidence to prove the crime of rebellion. How did you like it?

[Kim Jin]
First of all, based on facts, it is hard to imagine the intention of the Special Forces Commander, the counterintelligence Commander, and the deputy chief of the National Intelligence Service to deliberately manipulate the president as the chief of the civil war by making up what was not happening.

[Anchor]
We're showing you graphically now, but there were testimonies such as Special Warfare Commander Kwak Jong-geun and National Police Agency Commissioner Jo Ji-ho.

[Kim Jin]
Combine all those testimonies and get lawmakers out of Congress unconditionally so they can't adopt a resolution calling for impeachment. Second, arrest these people by leading politicians, Han Dong-hoon, Lee Jae-myung, Woo Won-sik, etc. Overall, we need to take this opportunity to completely change it. I have to organize it. Isn't this what you mean? So, in common sense, I think the possibility that such testimony was false or fabricated is very low. In this respect, lawyer Seok Dong-hyun or President Yoon's side deny all such things in a tactical way to avoid charges of rebellion, and there is no unexpected rebellion. However, he declared the emergency martial law without warning. It's also not logical.

If I add one more thing, I think President Yoon Suk Yeol is sending such a message to strong supporters, who are estimated to be 20 to 25 percent, but I think the image of President Yoon as president, the image of the people before impeachment. Zero because of the image of standing up to President Moon Jae In's attempt to press himself. I became president by 73 percentage points. Until now, many people remember being confident when it comes to Yoon Suk Yeol, but when such a situation happens, the president plans everything, whether it is suspected of rebellion or not, and I am responsible for everything.

I think it's the president's attitude to say that all of the subordinate commanders and these people are right to testify and that all the responsibility lies with me. So, even if the president is quoted as impeachment and resigns from the presidency, even if he is prosecuted, tried, and sentenced, it is highly likely that he will be pardoned within the president's term, even if his opponent becomes the president. So, you have to approach the president from a political and historical level and show his last confident appearance. I think there will be a lot of people who point out that point.

[Anchor]
Anyway, who is the specific planner of martial law? In this regard, a number of important issues have been revealed during the investigation, and the media is focusing a lot on former intelligence commander Roh Sang-won. It was known that the hamburger store plotted martial law. However, when we checked the results of our report, they said that there was an additional meeting on the day other than two days ago.

[Choi Chang Ryul]
We met on the same day and at a hamburger restaurant on the 1st, Ansan. Ansan is the home of former intelligence commander Roh Sang-won. It's my house and the store is near my house. I think I did backstabbing at that house, according to reports. I really don't understand. Many people think the same way, but how can a former commander give instructions to an active commander and Defense Minister Kim Yong-hyun directs that to a former commander? Apart from this structure, the military organization is special and such things are more severe, and how was this possible when it was an organization that put more emphasis on the system and such a command system? And you shouldn't have done it last night.Ma is six years old. I was discharged from the military six years ago, and how can I still exert that influence? So this person, former commander Roh Sang-won, worked with former Minister Kim Yong-hyun at the radiation station.

I think we worked together in the water radiation department and formed a relationship there, but this is also a kind of private organization. I think it's not exactly the same as this, but during the 12.12 military coup, the military revolt, it was also a water sergeant. Aren't those under the commander of the hydroponic and special forces attached to the security commander at the time Chun Doo-hwan? It feels like that. Choongam faction. One episode. Former commander Roh Sang-won is not a Chungam faction, and it is said that former Minister Kim Yong-hyun has a personal relationship and almost plotted martial law this time. It seems to have been very, very importantly involved. In addition, it is said that the decree was also written by former commander Roh Sang-won. I don't understand this in itself. In a way, it's a bit bizarre to use a harsh expression. He's a fortune teller again. Aren't you saying that you're a good talker and a fortune teller? I'm not saying fortune tellers are bad. While looking at the mole.

[Anchor]
It's not disparaging the job, but the context is unique.

[Choi Chang Ryul]
He is a former martial artist while plotting the military's martial law, which means that this is not right. I'm not saying anything about reverse tactics at all.

[Anchor]
Anyway, it was said that the meeting to simulate martial law was unique because it was held at a hamburger store two days before martial law, but additional meetings were also held there. Seeing that the place is constantly fixed, I wonder if there was a reason. I also have this suspicion.

[Choi Chang Ryul]
It's close to home, and in that sense, it's rather dark under the lamp, and I think that's why I was aiming for that.

[Kim Jin]
In order to understand the Senate, it is necessary to look into the specificity of the information company. For the first time since the democratization system in 1988, intelligence companies have been audited by the National Assembly. This is because some agents of the intelligence agency committed a thigh knife attack on Oh Hong-geun, head of the social affairs department of the JoongAng Ilbo. So in order to reprimand it, the intelligence agency conducted the first parliamentary audit. So, some facilities of the intelligence agency were disclosed. At that time, I went to the scene as a political reporter for the JoongAng Ilbo.

At that time, I was in Seocho-dong, but now I moved the building to another place, and this is a unit that penetrates North Korea, so the unit building itself seems quite like a movie set. The windows are very small, and there are a lot of semi-underground facilities. Unlike the most closed, secretive, and loyal troops of the Republic of Korea. Because it's a unit that has to infiltrate North Korea and risk its life. We have the HID unit. Therefore, how can an incumbent information officer receive orders or instructions from a job change? Information companies are closed organizations that can have such an atmosphere.

[Anchor]
Are you saying that the command system can be maintained even after being discharged from the military?

[Kim Jin]
Right. OB is respected by other juniors. Intelligence agents, especially former intelligence commander Roh Sang-won, have strong confidence in the alleged election fraud. So, it is reported that he is a person who has far-right thinking about quite a few political situations. Then, since the intelligence agency is a unit that has to infiltrate North Korea, the overall atmosphere of the intelligence agency is also very connected in that respect. So, Roh Sang-won... Through Minister Kim Yong-hyun. Isn't it Minister Kim Yong-hyun's 3rd or 4th graduates of the Military Academy? I think that Minister Kim Yong-hyun may have influenced President Yoon Suk Yeol's idea of fraudulent elections. That's why the intelligence agency was pointed out as a key unit in dealing with the fraudulent election issue and actually dispatched.

[Choi Chang Ryul]
Another thing I don't understand is that the 2nd Armored Brigade Commander was also there. But the 2nd Armored Brigade Commander is in Paju. It's on the sidewalk. When I was in the military, I saw a lot of the armored brigade. But isn't it that the 2nd Armored Brigade commander was on vacation? There are reports that this person was also instructed by former commander Roh Sang-won while he was on vacation. The armoured brigade is a powerful firepower there. There are K1 tanks and armored vehicles. It's an armoured brigade defending the capital. But this person is not from an intelligence agency. From that point of view, it seems that former commander Roh Sang-won has something to do with him. simply away from the intelligence service

[Anchor]
Kim Jin also told me about his reporting experience, but it is said that it is a unit that emphasizes closure while going through the semi-basement, and many people seemed to be wondering that we had a meeting in Lotteria. It's such an open place.

[Kim Jin]
Lotteria meetings have advantages and disadvantages. If you look at the characteristics of an informant, if you book a secret room in a hotel or something like this, it's so secretive to the hotel employees or people like this. Lotteria has a lot of people. So even if we talk about it, we're not interested in who's talking about what they're talking about in the next seat. Lotteria.

[Anchor]
Anyway, we're just guessing. But since we've had two meetings here, what kind of place do we really have a will for? I think I have no choice but to have this suspicion. Anyway, Moon Sang-ho, the intelligence commander who said he didn't know Roh Sang-won well, reportedly had a hamburger meeting, but on the 10th, he said he didn't know Roh Sang-won well. Let's listen to it.

[Park Sun-won / Minjoo Party member: Do you know Roh Sang-won? You don't know?]

[Moon Sang-ho / Commander of the Armed Forces Intelligence]: I don't know. ]

[Park Sun-won / Democratic Party member: You don't know the 41st class of the reserve director? ]

[Moon Sang-ho / Commander of the Armed Forces Intelligence Command: I worked for only one year when I was a major. ]

[Park Sun-won / Democratic Party member: Have you ever worked at Cheong Wa Dae Park Geun Hye? You don't have one?]

[Moon Sang-ho / Commander of the Armed Forces Intelligence Command: 1 year of service. ]

[Park Sun-won / Democratic Party member: You worked, right? Roh Sang-won, you were also the deputy security officer, right? ]

[Moon Sang-ho / Commander of Armed Forces Intelligence] That's how I remember it. ]

[Park Sun-won / Minjoo Party member: But don't you know? And Roh Sang-won was the one who introduced Minister Kim Yong-hyun, right? ]

[Moon Sang-ho / Commander of the Armed Forces Intelligence Service] That's not true. ]

[Park Sun-won / Minjoo Party member: So you know Kim Yong-hyun very well, right? ]

[Moon Sang-ho / Commander of the Armed Forces Intelligence Command: For the first time with the Minister...]

[Park Sun-won / Democratic Party member: You knew through Roh Sang-won and Kim Yong-hyun that you will stay as the intelligence commander, right? ]

[Moon Sang-ho / Commander of Armed Forces Intelligence] I've never heard of it. ]

[Anchor]
I don't know the old house. The National Assembly responded like this, but later during the investigation process, former Minister Kim Yong-hyun stated that he had received an order from Roh Sang-won that my order was my order, and such media reports are also coming out. That was before the hamburger meeting was revealed.

[Choi Chang Ryul]
So, it's like Minister Kim Yong-hyun entrusted former commander Roh Sang-won fully. And people like that underneath. Commander Moon Sang-ho or another person. I mentioned the 2nd Armored Brigade Commander earlier.Anyway, former Minister Kim Yong-hyun should listen to Roh Sang-won first. That's why I think the most important people in martial law this time are Kim Yong-hyun and Roh Sang-won. Of course, at the top of the list is President Yoon. Because I am listed as a suspect. Anyway, I think there will be a lot of things that will be revealed by the investigation. I think there are still a lot of things that have not been revealed, and I don't know how far they are true. I don't understand it at all. If it was a year or two ago, even if it was because of the specificity of the intelligence officer, he was discharged from the military six years ago and can even direct the commander of the tank unit? That's not very convincing.

[Anchor]
Why does Kim Yong-hyun and Roh Sang-won have names in planning martial law? Many people seem to be working on various puzzles, but if you guess based on Kim Jin's explanation a little while ago, there is a possibility that former commander Roh Sang-won may have moved former Minister Kim Yong-hyun, can you see it like this?

[Kim Jin]
Former commander Roh Sang-won seems to be a charismatic figure to some extent, focusing on intelligence organizations or water radiation organizations in the military. So the juniors follow. Armored 2nd Brigade Commander who was mentioned just a moment ago. If you look at it anyway, there is a network of senior citizens in the county. I don't know exactly how big it is. And what's important is that Roh Sang-won gained so much confidence in Kim Yong-hyun, the former commander, in various political situations, including rigged elections, for example, the theory of pro-North Korean anti-state forces. Such things are also likely to have provided a theoretical basis since the intelligence agency is an organization related to such things, and if it has been six years since he was discharged, he has been in a freer condition to grasp such things in our society for six years. So there's a possibility that you've met people who insist on conspiracy theories for fraudulent elections. That's why it's really a mystery that former commander Roh Sang-won is behind this.

[Anchor]
Anyway, former commander Roh Sang-won and former minister Kim Yong-hyun have been secured, so we need to wait and see the results of the investigation. Let's move on to the politics this time. As we enter the impeachment process, the possibility of an early presidential election is being discussed, and Jamryongs are slowly speaking out. Daegu Market in Hong Joon Pyo I've been making a lot of political voices lately. I said this in a media interview. It would be nice if you could show me the graphic. Some people say that they have officially run for president.

That's what I said. It is outrageous for Lee Jae-myung to become president. How do you make a criminal president? With Seoul Mayor Oh Se-hoon and me, our party can hold a presidential election. I am the only one who has held an impeachment presidential election. That's why it's coming out. I think it can be interpreted like this. And if it's hard to get a job last August, I'll quit the mayor of Daegu and go up to help the president of Yoon Suk Yeol. He suggested that we introduce this as the prime minister in charge. In October, I texted him and warned him that he could be like former President Park Geun Hye. But the president of Yoon Suk Yeol did not listen to me. The mayor of Hong Joon Pyo said this in a media interview. Is this a declaration that I'm going to leave if I run for president early?

[Choi Chang Ryul]
Sure. It's like a de facto announcement of a presidential bid. And the mayor of Hong Joon Pyo attacked former CEO Han Dong-hoon very persistently. I wondered if it was necessary to do that much, and I attacked it even with issues that were excessive. That's what everyone expected.Ma, I inferred, isn't former CEO Han Dong-hoon the most powerful runner in the passport? I still see it as a gift within the passport. That's why I think he kept sending messages to check representative Han Dong-hoon, and that's also the case with the prime minister in charge. Not just a prime minister, but a responsible prime minister actually divides power in half. Even if there is no constitutional basis. Diplomacy, defense, and security are what the president does, and in fact, people's livelihoods, and the control of the Cabinet of Article 86 of the Constitution, which is in Article 86 of the Constitution. I kept saying that during the presidential election, but I think it's a message that informs you in earnest when the situation becomes like this.

[Anchor]
Former leader Han Dong-hoon, who I hated so much, also left the party, and now it's my stage, is this a declaration? How did you like it?

[Kim Jin]
If President Yoon had received the responsible prime minister system as the mayor of Hong Joon Pyo said, he would have been acting president by now. He would be acting as an Hong Joon Pyo. Mayor Hong's first goal is to become a presidential candidate of the people's power because this is virtually the last opportunity for Daegu Mayor Hong Joon Pyo to challenge the presidential election. Before the impeachment, the possibility was quite difficult because it was quite behind representative Han Dong-hoon. When representative Han Dong-hoon headed the emergency committee during the last general election, he had almost the same public approval rating as representative Lee Jae-myung or was ahead in some surveys. When he was the representative of the People's Power before impeachment, he fell to half of Lee Jae-myung. However, the most recent survey has fallen to one-seventh of Lee Jae-myung, making it 5:5 the same as Hong Joon Pyo's.

[Anchor]
I think you can show us the graphic.

[Kim Jin]
And what would happen if Seoul Mayor Oh Se-hoon, who supports Hong Joon Pyo like that, runs together, Han Dong-hoon also runs. Representative Han Dong-hoon and Mayor Oh Se-hoon opposed the impeachment at first, but at the end, they turned to the approval of the impeachment. Then the pro-impeachment group will be Han Dong-hoon and Oh Se-hoon. The pro-impeachment vote will split decisively. Then the mayor of Hong Joon Pyo can absorb almost all of the anti-impeachment votes centered on Daegu-Gyeongbuk and pro-Yoon-gye.

[Anchor]
That side splits and I get it alone, so I end up with it, is this calculation?

[Kim Jin]
That's right. So even though they voted for the impeachment of Mayor Oh Se-hoon, they're taking this antinomic logic with one representative attacking and Oh welcoming. In fact, I believe that if Oh Se-hoon and Han Dong-hoon both run at the same time, the vote in favor of impeachment will be divided. And because public opinion polls of Han Dong-hoon have fallen a lot in the middle of the poll, Hong Joon Pyo, who was pushed back by Yoon Suk Yeol last time, has a realistic chance of becoming a presidential candidate this time.

[Anchor]
Arithmetically speaking, candidates who voted for impeachment can share the vote, and since they are the only ones who opposed it, it's me if I take it alone. Would the party members prefer someone who opposed impeachment? Or do you prefer someone who voted for it? I think this problem will also remain.

[Choi Chang Ryul] I think he would prefer someone who voted for impeachment
. Last time, CEO Han Dong-hoon said it would be difficult, didn't you get 63%? In the end, this party has no choice but to follow the public sentiment. Now, the Hong Joon Pyo market is the same tactics for Mayor Oh Se-hoon. Keep Han Dong-hoon in check. They were all in favor of impeachment.

[Anchor]
Mayor Oh Se-hoon didn't criticize much.

[Choi Chang Ryul]
But if you look at this, the last time Moon Jae In was president, the vote rate was less than 50%. However, the conservative camp's Yoo Seung Min and Ahn Cheol Soo combined exceeded 50%. So if you go that way, it seems certain that the opposition party will be unified. given the current situation The premise is that an early presidential election will take place. with impeachment cited However, if the conservatives are divided into pro-impeachment or anti-impeachment, I think it would be better to run for president. First of all, the public sentiment was overwhelmingly in favor of impeachment. However, the mayor of Hong Joon Pyo, who is most likely to be seen now, opposes impeachment. Can you hold a presidential election like this? No matter how strategically the mayor of Hong Joon Pyo experiences political engineering. In the end, we have to put a level head on the public sentiment. I don't think it'll be easy for me if I go like this.

[Anchor]
Mayor Oh Se-hoon didn't even say he would come out yet, but the mayor of Hong Joon Pyo said, "I can hold a primary election with Oh Se-hoon." Mayor Oh Se-hoon's approval rating is now around 2%, which is quite low, but do you think it will be an opportunity?

[Kim Jin]
I had a chance to have a chance. However, I repeat that I quit the mayor and ran this time, and this time, representative Han Dong-hoon and Mayor Oh Se-hoon all went back and forth on martial law and impeachment issues, losing a large part of the support of the middle class. I've talked about it on the air several times since the impeachment, but representatively, people like CEO Han Dong-hoon lost the opportunity to win a thousand gold medals. Anyone who has an ambition to become a national leader must take a big step forward in a martial law situation like this or a crisis like this. You opposed martial law at first. It was good up to there.

But then the opposition to impeachment. After that, he invited the counterintelligence commander to vote for impeachment. After that, he opposed impeachment, and after that, I finally voted for impeachment, and when I calculated, Han Dong-hoon went back and forth four times, in the case of representative Han Dong-hoon. To add one more thing, when the Soviet Communist Party staged a coup in 1991 during the collapse of the Soviet Communist system, Russian President Boris Yeltsin took the lead in the political situation and became a national star by climbing on a tank and blocking it. Han Dong-hoon should have done so this time. I missed a golden opportunity.

[Anchor]
Anyway, I'm going to travel alone in the country now, and I'm going to have time to think about it. The political landscape is changing so rapidly. Also, we need to wait and see what opportunities former CEO Han Dong-hoon will have, but isn't it the issue of Lee Jae-myung's judicial risk that the ruling camp's sleepers are talking about together recently? The results of the appeal trial for former lieutenant governor Lee Hwa-young came out yesterday. This is the payment of the cost of visiting North Korea, and the first and second trials acknowledged this the same. How did you see this?

[Choi Chang-ryul]
Isn't it that 5 million dollars of this 8 million dollars is for smart farms, and 2 million dollars is for North Korea? But the first and second trials are the same. The facts are the same. I just gave the sentence from 9 years and 6 months to 7 years and 8 months. So, that case is a case where CEO Lee Jae-myung is also being prosecuted. Isn't it the same thing that former lieutenant governor Lee Hwa-young is talking about the fact that the court is illegal at least for remittances to North Korea and that this is a payment? I don't know what will happen if I go to the Supreme Court. As far as I know, the Supreme Court does not change the facts, so in the eyes of Representative Lee Jae-myung, this trial could be very disadvantageous.

There's still an indictment. So, if the facts were completely changed in the second trial or the court did not admit it, it would be very advantageous to representative Lee Jae-myung, but this is not the case, but the problem is that. Will there be a second trial on the remittance case to North Korea? Even the first trial. I think that's why the judicial risk is being fundamentally resolved. The premise is that impeachment is cited, of course. It may differ depending on when the impeachment trial ends, but for me, President Yoon Suk Yeol contributed to the fundamental resolution of Representative Lee Jae-myung's judicial risk. Consequently. I think it's the irony of a strange history.

[Anchor]
In any case, under the assumption that an early presidential election is held, the election law and the results of the perjury teacher's appeal are drawing attention, but Joo Jin-woo, a member of the People's Power Party, criticized him by saying that he is using too much of a delay strategy. Let's listen to the story.

[Joo Jin-woo / Chairman of the People's Power Legal Advisory Committee (Yesterday, TV Chosun YouTube 'Kang Punch') : There is one more obstacle now. Uniquely, he doesn't appoint a lawyer at all. If you don't appoint a lawyer, it has two effects on delaying the trial. First, when the first trial was held, if CEO Lee Jae-myung goes and says, "I haven't appointed a lawyer," it's usually a little absurd from the judge's point of view. You can say, "I'll appoint you now to be careful," and if you go to this state, you'll send a notice, "I'll appoint a public defender for you." From CEO Lee Jae-myung's point of view, this is also a very disgraceful scene. Does it make sense that CEO Lee Jae-myung, who is not a master of tax evasion, will appoint a public defender and a public defender who is operated by our taxes to judge with that? ]

[Anchor]
I'm not going to use a public defender, and I'm pointing out that I'm implementing a delay strategy. How did you like it?

[Kim Jin]
As CEO Lee Jae-myung, of course, he will use such a strategy. Also noteworthy, the court accepted the request for a judge's challenge. It wasn't dismissed, but we said we would consider whether we should avoid it or not. The logic presented by the court is also drawing attention. This doesn't seem to be a drag to delay the trial. The court said that we will first verify the logic that a certain court is in charge of the trial of former lieutenant governor Lee Hwa-young, so we can have prejudices. So, in my judgment, the court's attitude is the same in the case of the remittance trial to North Korea, and in terms of the time it takes for the first and second trials, I think that may be avoided in this process.

[Anchor]
In any case, both of them have now made such an analysis as to whether the results of the trial will be a major obstacle to Lee Jae-myung's presidential election, but if the early presidential election is held, the political community will be solidified into a structure of Lee Jae-myung vs. anti-Lee Jae-myung, and if that happens, it will be possible to combine the middle and conservatives.

[Choi Chang Ryul]
But there are a lot of paintings like that. I told you earlier when Moon Jae In became the president.Ma is currently almost split in pay. There is no need to talk about Yoon Han's conflict anymore. Didn't you see the graph earlier? Han Dong-hoon, Hong Joon Pyo, and Oh Se-hoon are all divided. But the opposition party is almost likely to go to Lee Jae-myung. Then this is whether you've played a game or not. And especially now, what's being divided is not being divided for other reasons, but for or against impeachment.

You mentioned moderate, conservative, so would the middle class vote for such a party? Isn't floor leader Kwon Sung-dong still saying a lot that emergency martial law was justified? So how can I ask for a ticket? I really didn't see the power of the people that much, but I really think it's a party that doesn't want to win the presidential election. It's hard to hold an election like this. You have to change your perception completely. Regardless of who the emergency committee chairman becomes, can we really ask the people to win with that kind of perception? I'm a little skeptical about that.

[Anchor]
In any case, there was a big difference in the party's approval rating, so we will see what breakthrough the people's power can find. They were Kim Jin, a former editor of the JoongAng Ilbo, and Choi Chang-ryul, a special professor at Yongin University. Thank you.