The ruling and opposition parties are in a tug-of-war with the independent counsel.The ruling-opposition-government consultative body is also squeaking.

■ Hosted by: Anchor Sung-kyu Sung-gyu
■ Starring: Lee Jong-geun, current affairs critic, Professor Bae Jong-ho of Seha University

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN Newswide] when quoting.

[Anchor]
Since the passing of the presidential impeachment bill, the confrontation between political circles has been strengthened. The opposition party is pressuring the acting Han Deok-soo for a quick promulgation of the Special Counsel Act and the Special Counsel Act on First Lady Kim Gun-hee, but the ruling party criticizes the opposition party for the special investigation. In addition, the ruling-opposition government council, which announced its launch after twists and turns, is also continuing to fight over the composition method. Let's summarize the situation of the political situation after the impeachment bill was passed with the two of you. Lee Jong-geun, a current affairs critic, and Bae Jong-ho, a professor at Seha University, are here. Welcome, two of you. After the presidential impeachment bill was handed over to the Constitutional Court, the political community is having a confrontation. The confrontation is intensifying over the two special prosecution laws proposed and passed by the opposition party. Let's first hear the remarks of the floor leaders of the ruling and opposition parties at the press conference today.

[Democratic Party of Korea floor leader Park Chan-dae press conference: Prime Minister Han Deok-soo is urged again to accept and promulgate the special prosecution law by the 24th at the latest. I can't find a good reason or reason to wait until the 31st. // If the request for recommendation by the permanent special prosecutor candidate and the special prosecutor's promulgation are not made by the 24th, we will be held accountable immediately.]

[Representative of People's Power Kwon Sung-dong, Acting Party Leader and Floor Leader Press Conference: The Democratic Party of Korea's impeachment has not stopped. Acting President Han Deok-soo is making threatening remarks, including the decision to impeach him before Christmas, and the push for impeachment early next month. It means that we'll be ready to destroy the country. // To criticize the veto of the two special prosecutors, the first thing to do is to remove the unconstitutional elements of the bill. ]

[Anchor]
As you have just heard, the Democratic Party of Korea is pressing Acting President Han Duck-soo to quickly accept and publicize the two independent counsel laws, and if the independent counsel is not announced by the 24th, it will be held accountable. I should ask Professor Bae first. You're going to go through the impeachment process?

[Bae Jong Ho]
Rather than going through the impeachment process, first, promulgate the independent counsel law as soon as possible. In particular, in the case of a permanent special prosecutor, the president cannot veto it. However, in order to select a special prosecutor, the president or acting president must first request the recommendation of the special prosecutor candidate. However, it has been 11 days now, but the process of appointing an independent counsel is not in progress because Acting President Han Deok-soo is not making a request.

[Anchor]
Are you talking about the permanent special prosecutor?

[Bae Jong Ho]
That's right, the permanent special prosecutor. And at the same time, the general special prosecutor and the special prosecutor Kim Gun-hee law should be done by the 24th. So, if he doesn't do it, he must have expressed his will to go through the impeachment process as the anchor said, and the reason is that looking at acting President Han Deok-soo's actions now, it seems that President Yoon Suk Yeol's state administration is continuing. The Democratic Party seems to have decided that the illegal and anti-constitutional emergency martial law and civil war are going in a different direction from the will of the people who want to settle it. A representative example is the recent veto of six bills, including the Grain Act. However, from the perspective of the Democratic Party, this is a very active exercise of authority, although the acting president can do it. As I said, I have doubts that this active exercise of authority will continue the basis of President Yoon Suk Yeol's state administration. Prime Minister Han Duck-soo said, "Since the deadline is 31 days, we will wait until then. If we exercise our veto power then, we will waste time. So, if you give it a deadline by the 24th and don't do it by the 24th, you will pass the impeachment bill to suspend acting president Han Deok-soo, and then Deputy Prime Minister Choi Sang-mok will take over the acting position.

[Anchor]
As you said, the Democratic Party should do it by the 24th. By the way, acting Han Deok-soo did not make a separate position today, but didn't he say he would think about it until the 31st?

[Lee Jong-geun]
That's right. When I vetoed the six bills last time, I actually had a deep concern, it took a lot of time. And the Cabinet meeting on why it should be vetoed now explained why it should be constitutionally vetoed in relation to the Constitution. I think there will be two conflicting points of time this time as well. Investigations are also being conducted very quickly regarding the special prosecutor for civil war, and many people have conflicting investigations with each other anyway, so we continued to see confusion as we conducted overlapping investigations out of fairness. If so, there are certainly voices that the independent counsel may be able to resolve this confusion. However, if you look into it, it is clearly judged that there are unconstitutional elements in the law, and the important thing is that public demands are important, but if you set a precedent as an acting president, you will have to set a precedent where the majority party should put their partisan interests first and push all kinds of bills to the acting president.

[Anchor]
So, the unconstitutional element you just mentioned is the same in the ruling party. The same goes for acting authority Kwon Sung-dong, what specific details are you talking about?

[Lee Jong-geun]
First of all, aren't the two independent counsel laws the Insurrection Special Prosecutor Act and the Kim Gun-hee Special Prosecutor Act? But when it comes to the independent counsel law, this is it. For example, when I see a situation, I file a complaint. I'm accusing you of something wrong with this. However, the subject of accusation is the next step, and please appoint a prosecutor like this. Let this prosecutor investigate this. Can't the subject of the accusation choose the subject of the investigation like this? Now, the special prosecutor for the rebellion is also being sued by the opposition party and is demanding an investigation into the rebellion. However, floor leader Kwon Sung-dong's first argument about whether it is right to recommend the special prosecutor, who should investigate completely neutral and independently, is this. If you look inside, there are standing committees that we do privately at the National Assembly's standing committees, such as the Intelligence Committee, the National Defense Committee, or the National Assembly's standing committees. The intelligence committee is confidential information about the intelligence agency or national interests. The same goes for the National Defense Commission. confidentiality such as national security I don't actually disclose these. In addition, it is only allowed to be kept inside the standing committee and to be disclosed to the public by secretaries, but if you look at the contents this time, there is a regulation that prevents the National Intelligence Service and the Ministry of National Defense from unconditionally rejecting the evidence collection required by the special prosecutor. As I said before, if we fail to refuse to ask for state secrets that have nothing to do with the investigation, wouldn't this be a matter of national security? I think these are unconstitutional factors that the ruling party claims.

[Bae Jong Ho]
Once I add something to this issue, why does the opposition party only recommend a special prosecutor candidate when Kwon Seong-dong, the floor leader, points out that there is an unconstitutional element? It is a violation of the Constitution that the opposition party monopolizes. Therefore, if acting President Han Deok-soo does not exercise his veto power, he is developing the logic that this is a violation of the Constitution, and our critic told us a precedent. For my information, the precedent is an important reference standard, and so far, only the opposition party has recommended the independent counsel candidate three times, especially when there are allegations of corruption related to the president or the president's family. A case in point is that Park Young-soo recommended only the opposition party during the independent counsel's investigation into Park Geun Hye and Choi Soon-sil's manipulation of state affairs. And it was now President Yoon Suk Yeol who served as the special prosecutor's investigation team leader at that time. So, there is a clear precedent, and secondly, there was a precedent that only the opposition party recommended when the independent counsel in Naegok-dong was conducted in Lee Myung Bak, and didn't the independent counsel for Druking during the Moon Jae In presidency? At this time, there are three precedents recommended only by the opposition party. And at this time, the Constitutional Court also made a clear precedent that this is constitutional. And in particular, Kwon Sung-dong, the current floor leader of People's Power, chaired the National Assembly's impeachment committee when he impeached the Park Geun Hye. At the same time, there is a question of whether he was right then and wrong now when he took the lead in impeaching President Park Geun Hye.

[Anchor]
Critic, please tell us briefly.

[Lee Jong-geun]
In short, I agree with the professor now, but the important thing is that there has never been a single special prosecutor in the constitutional history without the ruling and opposition parties agreeing. As you said three times, the ruling party and the opposition party agreed on each of those three times, but they didn't agree on it. It is unconstitutional because they have not agreed now, but it is not unconstitutional because only the opposition party has done it.

[Anchor]
I see. I've heard enough. Let's talk about the ruling-opposition-government council. He expressed his intention to participate ahead of the people, but he asked Park Chan-dae, the floor leader, to meet immediately, but Park Chan-dae, not Lee Jae-myung, should participate. That's why Lee Jae-myung wants the ruling party not to participate. The opposition party wants to participate. How can this be interpreted?

[Bae Jong Ho]
This, in short, comes from the political calculation of the power of the people. In the power of the people now, if President Yoon Suk Yeol is impeached, wouldn't an early presidential election be held? In that case, it is very likely that Lee Jae-myung, who is currently leading in the overwhelming public opinion poll approval rating, will be elected. So, in terms of preventing representative Lee Jae-myung from becoming president, he is now carrying out various offensives, and it seems to be one of them. In other words, if the ruling and opposition party government consultative body is held now, if Lee Jae-myung appears at the forefront, Lee Jae-myung will take the lead in the political situation. And existence is highlighted. So, in the case of people's power except for Lee Jae-myung, the floor leader will also come out, so the Democratic Party of Korea should also come out. And it means that the acting president and the chairman of the National Assembly should come out, but this doesn't fit the format. Because isn't the acting president coming out instead of the president now?
And the speaker of the National Assembly comes out on behalf of the National Assembly, right? Then, of course, it's right for the leader of the ruling and opposition parties Secondly, it is an emergency situation. In an emergency situation, a person with full authority has to come out and quickly clean up this mess. But when the floor leader comes out, you have to ask the representative again. So I'd like to say that the efficiency is also very low.

[Anchor]
Critic?

[Lee Jong-geun]
The Speaker of the National Assembly does not call representatives to negotiate. Let's call the floor leader. Of course, the budget committee and the floor leader are called. So, if the Democratic Party of Korea gives the floor leader a reasonable authority rather than a one-way system, isn't it an emergency with the same logic as you said? In case of an emergency, the representative who can immediately run out and have a meeting needs protocol and formality. But that's not the important thing, but the floor leader comes out and negotiates quickly. Of course, the floor leader, who is the floor leader now, comes out and negotiates how much? So I don't think it's a matter of style. In my view, the power of the people is now an acting system. Of course, it is important for the floor leader to act as an acting chairman and, of course, the emergency committee chairman to be quick, but as you said, it makes sense for the floor leader to do it because it is an emergency. There is no need to insist on this. The Democratic Party made a lot of concessions on a grand scale. The ruling-opposition government council also proposed it first.

[Anchor]
Acting President Kwon Sung-dong is not saying that he won't do it when CEO Lee Jae-myung comes out.

[Lee Jong-geun]
That's right. So, you have to stick to this problem. And what's the lead? I don't mean this, and I've always appreciated the Democratic Party's proposal. If so, I don't think there is any reason for the Democratic Party to insist on whether it is the floor leader or the representative if it has such sincerity.

[Bae Jong Ho]
I agree with you that you don't have to stick to it if I add it briefly. Then you shouldn't insist that CEO Lee Jae-myung shouldn't. So, I think it would be right for representative Lee Jae-myung to participate in the compromise, set a big framework, and the floor leaders to proceed with the practice.

[Anchor]
Since electing the chairman of the emergency committee is a task within the ruling party in the future, we need to watch the process and see how to reach an agreement. And there's another big homework of acting Han Deok-soo. It's about the appointment of a constitutional judge, but the Democratic Party said it would hold a two-day confirmation hearing starting tomorrow. However, the ruling party is in a situation where acting Han Deok-soo should not exercise his authority because the appointment of a candidate for the Constitutional Court justice is the authority of the head of state, and the Democratic Party is urging him to hurry. How will this be organized?

[Lee Jong-geun]
Well, first of all, if you talk about a precedent, I think Hwang Kyo-ahn set a precedent in principle when he was acting Hwang Kyo-ahn, that is, when former President Park Geun Hye was impeached. At that time, I listened to the Democratic Party. At that time, the Saenuri Party was in a position to appoint quickly, and at that time, two people retired one after another from the Constitutional Court. First, Constitutional Court Chief Justice Park Seung-chul will retire, and then Constitutional Court Justice Lee Jung-mi will retire. In the meantime, there was no precedent, so in principle, Acting President Hwang Kyo-ahn insisted, made a judgment, and made a decision at the time. The president's acting, or impeachment, was suspended while the Constitutional Court heard it. Acting President Hwang Kyo-ahn's position was that when the job was suspended, the president had the right to appoint personnel, or the right to appoint constitutional judges, so he should not do it during the suspension period. But the Constitutional Court saw the decision. You see the decision by citation and then you immediately stand up. The president is fired. When the vacancy occurred, the Constitutional Court appointed a new constitutional judge at the time of the vacancy, saying that all powers had to be with the acting authority. Then, if the precedent is followed in the current situation, it seems to be the argument of the side that it cannot be appointed because it is still a suspension of duty.

[Anchor]
If you say so, you shouldn't appoint it now, but who recommended it? Isn't the argument that you can do it again if you choose the subject of recommendation?

[Bae Jong Ho]
First of all, in my view of the constitutional interpretation, the acting president is acting as the president's authority. So the acting president's authority to act on behalf of the president is to act on behalf of all the president's authority. You can even act as the commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces. This is the principle of the Constitution. But some things should not be done because it's the authority of the head of state, but it can be done because it's the authority of the administration, and this itself seems to be a very pre-emptive and arbitrary interpretation. Then, secondly, there is active exercise of authority and passive exercise of authority. But first of all, the acting president is literally the acting president, not the president himself. Because the president was elected by the people, but in the case of the prime minister, there are restrictions because he is not an elected official, but an appointed official. Therefore, the role of acting president is to minimize the vacuum in state administration. Therefore, it is correct to narrow the exercise of authority to the exercise of managed authority. In that sense, then three constitutional judges, who are currently at issue, are vacant. Regarding whether nominating this person is an active or passive exercise of authority by the acting authority, I am not an active exercise of authority, but a passive exercise of authority. Because the Constitutional Court has three vacancies. Then it's a six-member system. Then, in the case of a very important decision to dismiss or dismiss a president in the six-member system, both pro- and anti-impeachment people can raise the question of why they made the decision with six people, which is another factor of national division. So, if possible, it is right for nine people to do it, and then these three people are not appointed by the president, but recommended by the National Assembly. That's why the acting authority only needs to be approved. So this should not be seen as an active exercise of authority. And as you said earlier, floor leader Kwon Sung-dong once urged Park Geun Hye to do it quickly because it was a perfunctory appointment during the impeachment of former President, so I think this is also self-denial.

[Anchor]
That's what I'm saying. The power that the Democratic Party should actively exercise, as you have just said, and the power that should be exercised passively. Shouldn't the veto be exercised by dividing it like that, and the appointment right should be exercised, and don't you organize it like that? However, in terms of the power of the people, how to divide it is the right to do it as a head of state. And it divides the authority that can be done as the head of the administration, so that the appointment of a constitutional judge cannot be made, and the appointment of a minister is made.

[Lee Jong-geun]
To be honest with you, I'm an ambassador. I don't want to say which one is absolutely right. I believe that both sides are actually approaching this issue with partisan interests. You said earlier about the impeachment prosecution when Kwon Sung-dong, chairman of the Judiciary Committee, but in fact, the Democratic Party of Korea said at the time that representative Choo Mi-ae, floor leader Woo Sang-ho, and lawmaker Park Beom-gye, members of the Judiciary Committee, should never do it. The acting authority did not talk about the event, that is, the Constitutional Judge's share of the Supreme Court's recommendation at the time or the share of the National Assembly's recommendation. Don't do it unconditionally. You shouldn't do it. And CEO Choo Mi-ae said this. Didn't you go so far as to say that most constitutional scholars say that the acting president does not have such authority? It is not appropriate for me to criticize the Democratic Party but also to say that the power of the people is actually authorized to appoint the Minister of Public Administration and Security and the Minister of National Defense, and to say that I do not have the authority. If I keep saying that Acting Hwang Kyo-ahn established principles earlier, Acting Hwang Kyo-ahn did not appoint a minister at that time. I only did the
vice minister. I think that's my authority and I set a precedent at that time.

[Anchor]
This time, it is necessary to form an emergency committee within the power of the people, so what is going on now? Whether it is a two-top or a one-top has not been sorted out yet, and if it is a two-top, the emergency committee chairman should be a five-term senior. It's a situation where a lot of opinions are being collected there.

[Lee Jong-geun]
That's right. The first gun didn't come to a conclusion. I understand that there was a heated debate. I think it's narrowed down to two. As you mentioned, one is nominated by the acting authority with a senior of at least five terms. First. And secondly, according to the Party Constitutional Party regulations, when the period is not long, the acting floor leader can also serve as the chairman of the emergency committee. I set that precedent. Both parties had precedents, so they are not without precedents, but now the people seem to be very free from their perspective. Free. It's not the time for that controversy. The crisis of the existence of the party and the national crisis overlap. The party must now make a decision quickly and come up with a new solution, acknowledging to the people that this martial law was not justified. The ruling party should be the main agent of the settlement, but haven't they been arguing about it for several days now?

[Anchor]
So, Kim Kihyun. Kwon Young-se and Na Kyung-won are mentioned, so when these people become the emergency committee chairman, they say, "Isn't it pro-yoon?" and it's the former lawmaker Yoo Seung Min who comes out again. What do you think of this part?

[Bae Jong Ho]
I think it's zero probability. The reason why I think so is that in order to invite former lawmaker Yoo Seung Min as the chairman of the emergency committee, the people's power must basically support impeachment. Because isn't it the position that former lawmaker Yoo Seung Min should be strongly impeached? But as the anchor said, in the case of the power of the people, Han Dong-hoon was kicked out of the representative position. Why did you approve of impeachment? So, isn't it a situation where pro-Yoon who opposes impeachment has completely gained power? Therefore, he is going against impeachment, which is the opposite of the will of the people, but he is going against impeachment, so why would he call Yoo Seung Min as the chairman of the emergency committee from the power of the people who are pro-Yoon. Moreover, isn't the mainstream of people's power stigmatizing former lawmaker Yoo Seung Min as a traitor? So, in my view, there is little possibility of calling in, and if so, we should not oust CEO Han Dong-hoon in the first place. Now, the problem is that the power of the people is going in the right direction. Zero. And it's going in the opposite direction to the will of the people. [Anchor] Okay. As you said, the people who voted for the impeachment are traitors and part-timers. Those reactions are coming out. How do you accept this interpretation that this atmosphere has nothing to do with the number of seats of people's power centered on Yeongnam?

[Lee Jong-geun]
That's how I judge it. Because the Yeongnam-centered legislators now account for a significant portion of 108 lawmakers, they can virtually be elected again in the Yeongnam region, and secondly, the hurt of the last eight years when they voted for impeachment. So, lawmakers who voted for impeachment are constantly being labeled to this day. That's why the label of betrayal remains, especially among the Yeongnam lawmakers. So, Yoo Seung Min is also a member of the Yeongnam region, but he has never been nominated properly and is completely going around the outside, right? Looking at that, even if it is criticized by public opinion, if you go to the end in favor of impeachment, your position in Yeongnam is unstable, and you are continuing to go to the traitor frame as a whole.

[Anchor]
This time, we will also look at the situation of President Yoon's impeachment trial. President Yoon has not yet received the impeachment trial documents from the Constitutional Court. Previously, in the case of former President Roh Moo Hyun and former President Park Geun Hye, there was no case of being blocked from delivering documents, but now President Yoon has not received documents for a week. How do you see this
?

[Bae Jong Ho]
In short, it's a kind of delayed operation. Therefore, it is seen as a strategy to seek opportunities for reversal through public opinion campaigns by taking as much time as possible, but in short, it is not like the president at all. In particular, a president who is listed as a mobster in an investigative agency's warrant for an illegal and anti-constitutional emergency martial law incident should show a genuine apology to the people, what was he saying now? Whether it's impeachment or investigation, I'll stand up to it. But this is not a confident look at all. And I will not shy away from responsibility legally and politically. By the way, you're struggling to get out of this legally and politically, but if you go to the presidential office of Yoon Suk Yeol now, isn't there a plaque? It's a gift from President Biden, it's a plaque in President Truman's office. So The Park Stoops Heal, all the blame is on me. However, as the anchor said, former President Roh Moo Hyun was served a day after the impeachment motion was passed by the National Assembly. And secondly, in the case of former President Park Geun Hye, he served it by person. So I got it in an hour. Compared to that, there's a huge difference. So, now that the national prestige is being tarnished by the president, I think we should no longer be a president who shame the people.

[Anchor]
The Constitutional Court continued to try to deliver it by human, by mail, and online, but since it hasn't been receiving it for a week, it's said that it will make a decision tomorrow, but I will consider it as received. This is legally the Constitutional Court anyway, so I'll review it.

[Lee Jong-geun]
It's not a constitutional review, it's legal. There are many ways to serve. Childhood service and analogy service are considered to be received when an agent next to them receives it, but finally, if you continue not to receive and avoid it as it is now, there is a dispatch service. As you just said, we just consider the date of shipment. That's when it takes effect. So perhaps the issue the Constitutional Court is contemplating. The last way is to send it by shipping. Personally, if the president confidently said in the fourth statement that it was nothing more than a warning, it is a confidence that there is room for a real argument in the Constitutional Court. If so, I think it's a promise as a president to be served and then confidently work at the Constitutional Court, and it's a promise in the fourth discourse.

[Anchor]
But it's about the Constitutional Court's judgment. Even in the case of the investigation, the investigation headquarters were formed with the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit, the police, and the They sent me to attend on Christmas the 25th, what do you expect?

[Bae Jong Ho]
If you look at the behavior of Yoon Suk Yeol's president so far, it will not come out 100%. Because the prosecution also asked for attendance but refused, and now the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit is also asking for the first and the second, but it will not come out because it keeps not coming out and is not responding at all. And it's kind of a strategy that President Yoon Suk Yeol is not cooperating with the investigation and not responding to the call for attendance. It's a delayed operation. Because if the investigation progresses quickly, the investigation situation eventually affects the impeachment trial. That's why I'm trying to prevent that, but the problem is that if you refuse to comply with the impeachment trial and the investigative agency's attendance, this will be included in the reason for impeachment. In the case of former President Park Geun Hye, he did not attend the impeachment trial of the Constitutional Court and later included this in the reason for impeachment, but specifically, he has no will to protect the constitution. Then, in the case of President Yoon Suk Yeol, didn't he use the military to block the National Assembly? It's a very small violation of martial law law, so this part is even charged with rebellion, so I personally think I'm very likely to be impeached nearly 100% because the reason for impeachment is clear and it's a serious violation of the Constitution and law.

[Anchor]
Professor Bae, what do you think of this? The news just came in, and the Dong-A Ilbo secured the call details of President Yoon's regular mobile phone. It's not a secret phone. I heard that you are also trying to secure a non-Phone, what can this mean?

[Bae Jong Ho]
First of all, it should be seen as expanding the scope of forced investigations one by one, but the most important thing now is that President Yoon Suk Yeol is accused of rebellion. So this is subject to an emergency arrest. And if you continue to refuse to comply with the investigative agency's request for attendance, this is another reason for arrest. So, I'm arresting all the criminals and arresting them, right? But why don't you make an emergency arrest for a rebellion mob? It is right for me to arrest President Yoon Suk Yeol urgently and investigate and arrest him. Why, isn't Korea a rule of law? And isn't everyone equal before the law? Then, I would like to say that we should apply the same.

[Anchor]
So, the head of the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit said that he would consider issuing an arrest warrant, but would this be possible? The security services have now blocked the raid. There are also concerns about physical collisions.

[Lee Jong-geun]
The problem is public opinion. If the public opinion does not respond on the 25th, the public opinion will be very bad as it does not respond. And the approval rating will continue to fall. If the approval rating drops by a single unit. Isn't it in the 10% range? When criticism grows against the president, who is falling into a single unit and refusing to comply, wouldn't the scene of an arrest warrant actually being issued and being hit once or twice continue? If it continues, the president will be at a considerable disadvantage depending on the public opinion when it continues. Then, within the power of the people, there will be voices calling for cooperation in the investigation. I think the key is public opinion. I think the arrest warrant earlier is actually up there. Don't you have a regular phone? The reason why regular phones are important is that until now, they have been saying that they have made a secret phone call to the commander. I ordered it directly on the non-phone, so there is no phone record. But why is a regular phone important? The reason why I used it as a non-phonic phone is that it has been used since the president held a press conference.

[Anchor]
When do you mean the press conference?

[Lee Jong-geun]
At the end of the day, we talk about this in front of reporters. I've been with my wife so far. Isn't it in the article now that I told you that I use non-Phone because I kept using regular phones with my wife long before martial law and actually used non-Phone? Then, why did you search and confiscate regular phones? Before that, lawmaker Kim Min-seok and lawmaker Park Seok-won talked about martial law from July. From July, martial law starts to be talked about. Then it's way before the press conference. Then, before the press conference, a meeting at the residence where Rep. Park Sun-won or Rep. Kim Min-seok raised the issue. The gatherings of Chungam High School will be recorded on the regular phone. [Anchor] So we don't know if the regular phone is the one you used before the press conference or the one you changed after the press conference, right? [Lee Jong-geun] After the press conference, I used a non-phonic phone. So, what do you mean by changing it? Because I mostly used non-phone phones, what the president actually said at the time was that he confessed that he didn't use the phone when he had a phone to use as president.

[Anchor]
Shall we listen to the professor for the last time? About non-mobile phones or regular phones.

[Bae Jong Ho]
As you said, I think there are two regular phones. Before that, President Yoon Suk Yeol kept raising problems using his personal phone, his personal phone, which he had been using since the past, and the president said he would change it through a press conference, so he actually changed his regular phone. So, as the anchor said, we need to check whether the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit is talking about what we've used before or whether it's a regular phone. What's important is that the two personal phones themselves are before the emergency martial law, as you said, so there will be important clues. If you have secured such a regular phone that you have used in the past at the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit, I would like to tell you that there is a possibility that decisive evidence may come out in this regard, such as intervention in nominations or suspicion of manipulating public opinion polls, especially at a time when the suspicion of pollsters is highly likely to be the decisive smoking gun.

[Anchor]
I'll stop listening to it. Lee Jong-geun, a current affairs critic, and Bae Jong-ho, a professor at Seha University. Thank you.