[News UP] What is the story of martial law revealed by 'a fortune teller's notebook and hamburger meeting'?

■ Host: Anchor Cho Jin-hyuk and Anchor Kim Jung-jin
■ Starring: Attorney Seo Jeong-bin

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN News UP] when quoting.

[Anchor]
Roh Sang-won, a civilian former intelligence commander, was handed over to the prosecution this morning for drawing the outline of the emergency martial law as you saw it in person.

Through his handwritten notebook and preliminary conspiracy, the war of martial law is gradually being revealed. Let's go over the contents with lawyer Seo Jeong-bin today. Welcome.

Roh Sang-won, a former intelligence commander known as a secret planner of martial law, has been found, which is drawing attention. There's an expression called "killing."

[Jeongbin Seo]
That's right. If you look at the contents of the notebook confirmed now, politicians, journalists, religious people at the time, and these people, such as unions, judges, and public officials, are collected and processed. There are these expressions, and as you said, it is confirmed that the expression of killing is also appearing. That is why suspicions are increasing as to the question of whether there has been an extreme plan that has been raised only as a suspicion so far.

[Anchor]
Since the notebook also contains information such as trying to use the north wind as a justification for martial law, the situation has been detected, but I understand that attempted foreign exchange crimes can be punished. What is the possibility of additional foreign exchange charges now?

[Jeongbin Seo]
First of all, the police are considering foreign exchange charges and investigating them, but it is correct to think that it is a little uncertain whether foreign exchange charges can be actually applied at this stage. Of course, it is possible to investigate the charges of foreign exchange, but in order for this to be established, there must be an act that will cause a war by notifying foreign countries. However, the problem was that he tried to induce war here, and he tried to induce the north wind. In fact, this is a different story from the mother-in-law, so it is necessary to determine whether there was even such a mother-in-law relationship. It seems that there will be practical applicability only when such a part is investigated, and as you said, attempts are punished and even the preliminary conspiracy stage is punished before that. However, in the case of preliminary preparation, there should be material preparation, but whether there was actually material preparation other than planning, this part should also be investigated, and in the case of conspiracy, several people made a simple agreement. Or there is a possibility that a conspiracy will not be established to the extent that an abstract plan is made. Therefore, based on this notebook, I think we can review whether it is established or not only when an investigation is conducted in more detail on what kind of preparations have actually been made.

[Anchor]
It is known that this notebook has been secured in Roh's fortune teller's shop, so how will it affect the investigation in the future?

[Jeongbin Seo]
Once it appears to be a notebook written by the person himself, if a trial such as a rebellion against the person proceeds, it can be used as direct and effective evidence. But the question is whether it will be used only in one's own trial or in the trials of the people involved, and of course, it can be used as evidence, but it is a question that needs to be judged again how proven it is in other people's trials. In the end, if it is revealed that the contents of the notebook were reported to what extent the statements or circumstances were, or that they consulted with others when writing the contents of the notebook, it can be used as very important evidence in the trials of those involved.

[Anchor]
Lawyer, didn't a handwritten notebook also appear during Choi Soon-sil's manipulation of state affairs? The decisive factor at that time was that there was a part where VIP instructions were written, so in the case of former commander Roh's notebook again, how should we look at this connection?

[Jeongbin Seo]
It is important to find such a connection. The difference from the notebook written during Choi Soon-sil's manipulation of state affairs in the past is that he wrote the instructions as they were in the notebook at the time, and it is not yet confirmed whether former commander Roh Sang-won wrote the instructions or what he was planning. And when I look at the contents, I think he wrote down what he had in mind. That's why we have to figure out how it was written. In order for this to be fully utilized as evidence, the link you mentioned must be found. First, it is necessary to secure the former minister's statement or the fact that former Minister Kim Yong-hyun is involved in it, and the prosecution and the police are now reviewing the contents of the phone call with Kim Yong-hyun. So you'll have to check the recorded contents of the call and the contents. Other circumstances. Since there have been situations like sending drones to North Korea or reviewing the origin of filth balloons in the past, I think it will help to find a connection if it is reviewed how much it matches the contents of the notebook.

[Anchor]
Now, the word "second stage of this investigation" has begun to appear, and I'll ask you a question. Just a moment ago, the lawyer told you about the foreign exchange crime, such as preliminary conspiracy and propaganda. So, you said that punishment may be difficult without specific physical preparations, but is the second stage of the investigation, literally trying to establish a separate private organization rather than a formal organization like a secret organization, applicable to foreign exchange or rebellion?

[Jeongbin Seo]
First of all, in the case of foreign exchange crimes, as mentioned earlier, it is difficult to say that trying to organize the second stage of the investigation like this immediately leads to foreign exchange crimes. However, in the case of rebellion, it is a point where it can be connected sufficiently. So now, if this martial law incident and a series of situations are assumed to be where the charges of rebellion eventually become a problem and they are handed over to trial, the attempt to create and operate such an illegal, illegal organization that is not properly organized, can be judged as one of the acts of implementing these things through martial law and civil war. Therefore, if it turns out to be true that they were actually trying to operate such an abnormal private organization, it can be confirmed as an important fact about the alleged rebellion.

[Anchor]
Lawyer, then I reported that former commander Roh was sent to the prosecution today, but what are the specific procedures now?

[Jeongbin Seo]
First of all, the prosecution must decide whether to indict former commander Roh within at least 10 days or extend it and decide whether to indict him within 20 days. So, if necessary, the prosecution may conduct further investigations. If we decide whether to prosecute it or not, we believe that it will eventually be prosecuted within 10 days at the earliest.

[Anchor]
Let's also look at the competition between the prosecution and the police for investigation. Woo Jong-soo, head of the National Investigation Headquarters, criticized the prosecution's investigation, saying that it is difficult to understand the prosecution's investigation. I wonder what kind of leadership competition between the prosecution and the police should be considered and what kind of legitimate process they see.

[Jeongbin Seo]
Since the prosecution and the police are so different now, I don't know which one is right. In fact, these situations were predicted to some extent because the subject of the investigation was divided into two and three from the beginning of the investigation, so it was expected that there would be such a problem of overlapping investigations and such competition to take the lead in the investigation. First of all, the prosecution moved to support the arrest team by the police at the time. The police say that the seizure and search were necessary for such suspicions, and this is a prosecution's investigation that is difficult to understand because it is quite disturbing the current investigation. I'm making this argument, so I don't really know which one to justify more in this situation.

[Anchor]
If you point out one thing, he's known as the senior of the former commander Roh's army. Some say that former Minister Kim Yong-hyun, who is known to have talked on the phone several times before and after martial law, is currently refusing to investigate. What is the current situation?

[Jeongbin Seo]
It seems that he has been vetoing statements for some time, saying that he will not comply with such investigation procedures. So even if you summon them, they don't move where they are in custody. So it still seems to be repeating that situation. In fact, there may be enough cases where the suspect does not respond to the investigation of the investigative agency or refuses to make a statement. However, in the current situation, unfavorable content about former Minister Kim Yong-hyun is pouring out every day, so I think that in the current situation, it is more advantageous to watch and prepare for the current situation rather than to make a statement by responding to the investigation, and eventually go to trial to prepare and start the argument.

[Anchor]
Given the reason why the police are the subject of the prosecution's investigation now, isn't there a suspicion that they used investigators to run an arrest team? For now, the police claimed that they did not respond to the counterintelligence agent's request, but it turned out to be true that they had about 80 investigators on standby. What kind of responsibility can this part be held?

[Jeongbin Seo]
Since it is not possible to grasp the purpose of the emergency standby alone, it remains to be seen what charges can be imposed. So there was an order, but if it is determined that they did not respond to this, and that they prepared for accidents or similar situations in case they were put on standby, there will be no civil war or such problems, and if it is determined that they were put on standby according to the instructions, the allegation that they agreed with the civil war may become a problem. It seems difficult to confirm which one is so far revealed, and in the end, it is necessary to investigate the statements of those involved or the circumstances at the time.

[Anchor]
Let's look at the current investigation of President Yoon. Seok Dong-hyun, a lawyer for the president, said he would take the impeachment process first. Did you say that you will not attend tomorrow, and what should I see it as?

[Jeongbin Seo]
In the end, I think this means that I will not respond to the request for attendance, which was originally notified of the summons tomorrow. In fact, will the investigative agency respond to the request for attendance on the 25th? I think there were more opinions that most would not comply with this. However, I think that saying that we need to focus on this before the impeachment trial and this is the first thing to do is to say a little back that we will postpone tomorrow's attendance.

[Anchor]
If so, attention is paid to what the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit's next response will be, so is it going to the order of arrest warrants?

[Jeongbin Seo]
In fact, he said that if he no longer responds to the summons, he will consider an arrest warrant, and if so, he is expected to consider requesting a warrant, but one of the reasons for not responding now was that he should prepare for an impeachment trial. If so, as President Yoon has already said when he requested an arrest warrant, the impeachment trial that is in front of him is very important, and of course, from the president's point of view, the investigation into the alleged rebellion is important, but we did not attend to prepare for this trial because it is an important enough trial to prioritize the impeachment trial. It can also be argued as a defense logic that if arrested and subsequently arrested, we will not be able to properly respond to the impeachment trial process, which is an important trial. In fact, considering that, I expect that the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit will issue an arrest warrant like this, or if not, eventually request a recall or adjust the date of attendance.

[Anchor]
What do you think about the possibility of conducting a private investigation in a third place or reviewing the written investigation method?

[Jeongbin Seo]
First of all, I don't think we will review the written investigation method. Or, at first, the written investigation will begin first, and eventually the summons will be conducted, and I think there will be a possibility of changing the location. In fact, the law does not specifically stipulate where the investigative agency will conduct the investigation or the place. In particular, President Yoon Suk Yeol is arguing that it is not appropriate to be summoned to an investigative agency for investigation from the standpoint of president anyway.

[Anchor]
Lastly, let's look at the investigation related to Myung Tae-kyun. The prosecution secured the original file of the call recording containing the voice of President Yoon Suk Yeol asking Kim Young-sun to do it, and when I looked at it, the name of lawmaker Yoon Sang-hyun, who was the chairman of the mission committee at the time, was mentioned. President Yoon said at a press conference in November that he didn't even know Yoon Sang-hyun was the chairman of the nomination management committee. Looking at the situation in this recording file now, can it be seen as evidence that the president directly intervened in the nomination?

[Jeongbin Seo]
First of all, it is not direct evidence, but if the investigation proceeds, it can be meaningful evidence for this part as well. As you said, this contradiction could be unfavorable to President Yoon anyway, and the contents of Kim Gun-hee's phone call can be clearly heard as if it had some influence on the nomination, so this cannot be direct evidence. However, even indirectly, it can be unfavorable to President Yoon.

[Anchor]
I see. That's all I have to say. Thank you.