[News UP] "Emergency martial law" was declared six hours later...What's the wavelength after that?

■ Host: Anchor Yoon Jae-hee, Anchor Cho Jin-hyuk
■ Starring: Attorney Kim Kwang-sam

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN News Special] when quoting.

[Anchor]
Let's take a closer look at it with an expert on related content. I'm with lawyer Kim Kwang-sam. Please come in. Six hours after the president declared an emergency martial law, martial law was also lifted. You've been watching the overall situation since last night, how did you see it?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
It can be said that it ended with a midnight happening. Suddenly, around 10 o'clock, the president has a statement, and I received it through various text messages, whether it was a group chat. I saw it, but the president declared an emergency martial law. So few people would have expected an emergency decree to be declared. And it seems that the president's aides or aides did not expect the so-called pro-yoon forces to declare martial law at all.

As a result, I declared martial law, and there were quite a few doubts about what requirements of martial law would fall under, and one of the most important things is when martial law will be lifted if martial law is declared. However, what is stipulated in the martial law law, whether it is our constitution, can be lifted if the president has a reason to lift martial law on his own.

The next most important thing is the resolution of the National Assembly. So, if a majority of the registered members demanded the cancellation, the president was supposed to cancel it. So I wondered if the presidential office didn't know that, and now the Democratic Party actually has 170 seats. Then, if the National Assembly returns to normal, of course, it has no choice but to lift it, and there are many questions left about whether the emergency martial law was declared while recognizing it.

[Anchor]
As you said, it is becoming a situation that ended with happening in the middle of the night, but the public shock is quite large and public opinion is not good. Some say that President Yoon's leadership has been hit hard by the incident, which is inevitable, what do you think?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
It's a kind of political self-harm. It can be seen as a fatal wound to political leadership. One of the next important things does not end here, and there will be another issue of accountability for declaring emergency martial law. So, I think from the president's point of view, I think that politics is not working normally right now. So it's actually today. Isn't there an impeachment against three prosecutors today and an impeachment against the chairman of the Board of Audit and Inspection, Choi Hae-soo?

Most importantly, there is a re-decision on the special prosecutor Kim Gun-hee on December 10th. However, there is a high possibility that the close side will vote for it as a result of the confrontation between the close ones within the passport, and these things are likely to act as a very pressure, I think so. Even if there is a lot of pressure on those things, I think this is judicial in a way that completely paralyzes the administration. Furthermore, the Democratic Party recently reduced the budget by 4 trillion won.

A reduction of 4 trillion won will probably prevent the administration from playing its role properly.Lalji seems to have had various pressures. I don't know whether it was or not, but did it meet the requirements to declare an emergency martial law? Few people would agree with that. Nevertheless, despite the excessive emergency martial law, martial law was enforced, and it was lifted immediately, so various issues, such as political leadership, could be controversial in the future.

[Anchor]
As you said, the aftermath is likely to be very strong, but the Democratic Party has just announced that it will begin impeachment proceedings unless the president resigns immediately. However, if you look at the reasons for the president's impeachment, shouldn't there be a serious violation of the law? Is this applicable?

[Kim Kwang-sam]
First of all, the important thing is to violate the Constitution and the law, but it's a serious violation. To impeach. But so far, Democrats have not pushed for impeachment of the president, even though they say it is impeachment. There are many reasons for this, but the first is that it has not yet been clearly revealed that the president violated the Constitution and the law. Of course, I tried to find out such things as the premise of impeachment through the special prosecutor Chae, but it didn't work out properly. So I guess that's why he was trying to choose his way back on the road to some sort of impeachment.

That's why I took out the card called Kim Gun-hee's independent counsel, so if this is re-decided, isn't Kim Gun-hee married to the president? Then it seems that the president was trying to find out that it was a violation of the Constitution and the law and go to impeachment of the president. However, in fact, with the declaration of emergency martial law, there can be such controversy over whether or not the declaration of emergency martial law itself violates the Constitution and the law, and in some cases, there is ample room for it to be done. Then, I think there is a case where you can start impeachment proceedings against the president right away.

As the Democratic Party continues to question whether it constitutes another rebellion or not, I think there is a high possibility that the impeachment process will be done immediately without hesitation.

[Anchor]
He also mentioned the background of why President Yoon Suk Yeol declared martial law too much.Minister of National Defense Kim Yong-hyun is known to have proposed this martial law. However, when allegations of preparation for martial law were raised three months ago, martial law was denied. I'll listen to what you said at the time. If you look at the direct comments, they don't fit the times. You don't have to worry. And the Minister of National Defense even said that he doesn't think our country will follow him. But why did you suggest it all of a sudden?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
There are two important things you said. One will not be tolerated by the people. After that, he said that the military would not follow him. However, if you try to declare martial law, the Minister of Public Administration and Security is supposed to make a suggestion as to whether it is the Minister of Defense. Then, it is known that this emergency martial law was suggested by Defense Minister Kim Yong-hyun. It's not clear yet. Then, from my perspective, I also think it is possible that the Minister of Defense suggested it, considering the nature of the emergency martial law.

Then, wouldn't you think that even if you declared an emergency martial law, you would face resistance from the people and that you wouldn't follow them? So I can't help but think that the emergency martial law was a flashlight. This is because there are continuous questions about whether it has been deliberated by the State Council that are continuously raising the issue. If the members of the State Council try to participate in the Cabinet meeting, all of them will be caught by the media, right?

However, the media has not yet known such signs, and then there are various questions about whether emergency martial law was declared without going through a Cabinet meeting. When Defense Minister Kim Yong-hyun said that three months ago, most people agreed. So, even though we were aware that no matter how much emergency martial law was declared, we could not succeed, but we will hold Minister Kim Yong-hyun accountable in the future whether we have changed our perception since then or whether we have judged that it is a requirement to declare emergency martial law because of what has changed.

[Anchor]
Regarding the president's declaration of emergency martial law, the Democratic Party also has a procedural problem now. He said he violated the law, and even in the power of the people, CEO Han Dong-hoon pointed out that it was an illegal and unconstitutional declaration of emergency martial law. What do you think? It's a part that the declaration itself is unconstitutional. It is supposed to go through a Cabinet meeting, but if that part is omitted, can the declaration itself be unconstitutional?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
That's right. First of all, there are substantive and procedural requirements for a certain legal act. However, no matter how much it meets the substantive requirements, if there is a procedural defect, it becomes invalid. So one of the most important things is that the most important part, the State Council, is supposed to be deliberated by the State Council before declaring an emergency martial law. We are supposed to have a meeting and deliberate there, but did you really do that part? If you don't do it, your own emergency martial law will be invalidated.

Next, the second is a substantive requirement, and if you look at Article 77 (1) of the Constitution, it is a wartime incident and a similar national emergency. Then, does the current situation correspond to an emergency enough to correspond to an exhibition or an incident? But few people think it's such an emergency. Of course, the president can think that subjectively.

Therefore, an emergency martial law was declared, which could be done, but overall, there is a high possibility that there will be problems with procedural and practical requirements. Then, if the declaration of emergency martial law itself is unconstitutional and illegal, it is a constitution and law because the president has committed an unconstitutional or illegal act, which is a serious violation. Isn't emergency martial law a huge thing? Moreover, whether it is related to the existence of a country or to the national flag or to the national constitution. That's why it will continue to be controversial in this area, and it will also be a problem.

[Anchor]
What about the application of civil war crimes that the opposition party is pointing out? The Democratic Party of Korea claims that there was an attempt to arrest opposition leader Lee Jae-myung as well as the attempt to declare emergency martial law itself. Can the crime of rebellion be applied?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
That part is not clear. The crime of rebellion is stipulated by the criminal law, but it is either to participate in the war in the country. Tributes mean dividing the country like a division. Then, whether it is the basic order of liberal democracy, whether it is the national constitution or the national spirit, our constitution fundamentally disrupts the fundamental norms of democracy. If you tried to do such an act through emergency martial law, there may be room for requirements, but then it means rioting for the purpose of repenting the country or disrupting the national constitution.

So, the most typical case of rebellion is in 1980, when the military at the time of Chun Doo-hwan staged a riot through the military. So it's not that clear whether this can be seen as a crime of rebellion by the president itself. However, from the opposition's point of view, no matter how much the president violated the Constitution and laws, the current Constitution says that he will not be prosecuted except for the crimes of civil war and foreign exchange.

Then, if it does not fall under the crime of rebellion, it will not be possible to investigate or prosecute the president. However, if there is a controversy over whether or not it is a crime of rebellion, the investigation can be conducted as a result. So, there is room for the investigative agency to judge whether it is a crime of rebellion, and then prosecute the president. Even if you can't prosecute, even if you don't, you can just close it. Then the president will be investigated for now. So, when it comes to the president's privileges and things like that, rebellion doesn't apply. So, maybe the opposition party will continue to claim that it is a crime of rebellion.

[Anchor]
You also mentioned the possibility of applying the president's rebellion, and I would like to ask if there is a possibility that Defense Minister Kim Yong-hyun will be punished. Because, as you said just a moment ago, if you look at what Minister Kim Yong-hyun mentioned directly last September, it can be said that he knew the resistance of the people and the military. If so, it could lead to the logic of whether you have issued an unfair order, what do you think of this?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
I can't talk about it too early to talk about it so far. Because there is nothing definite about the process until the declaration of the emergency martial law. So if you know that this is an illegal emergency martial law, and you give the military any orders, it could be a violation of the military code, or it could be a violation of various laws. However, if there is a problem with the procedure or substance, Defense Minister Kim Yong-hyun also violated the Constitution and the law.

So far, the opposition party, especially the Democratic Party, has said that it will be impeached, but the reason for impeachment was not true before that. It was impossible to impeach the dispatch of troops to Ukraine because such things have not been specifically revealed yet, but if there is a substantial and procedural problem with the declaration of emergency martial law, it is likely to be the reason for impeachment.

[Anchor]
According to the constitutional criteria for lifting martial law, there should be more than a half of the lawmakers in the National Assembly, but since the opposition party has a large number of seats, the president must have made it clear that martial law will be lifted immediately. Nevertheless, there are various interpretations of whether such an irrational move was made, what do you think?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
The president is a lawyer. So, if you know the law better than anyone else and what effect the emergency rule can have when declaring an emergency rule. And if you continue to try to maintain this despite the declaration, there should be no resolution in the National Assembly to lift it. Then you must have known all that. Furthermore, the Democratic Party holds a majority of seats.

Then, of course, isn't it obvious that the National Assembly will demand the cancellation through a resolution? So maybe this is my personal opinion. First of all, it is supposed to be notified to the National Assembly as soon as the emergency martial law is declared after deliberation by the State Council. But there was no notification procedure. I think I was going to notify you this morning.

Then, in fact, when the National Assembly also requests the cancellation, it must be notified to request the cancellation. But in terms of time, I might have thought that wrong. Second, about 50 armed martial law soldiers entered the helicopter. So I think maybe the lawmakers were trying to stop this before they got together, before they came to the plenary hall. But rather, the lawmakers arrived quickly. So, if the lawmakers are not arrested or forcibly pulled out, the resolution of the plenary session cannot be prevented.

But the soldiers didn't act actively. That's why it was decided. That's why it might have been misjudged in terms of time timing. Second, when martial law is declared, the most leading thing is that the military does everything. Since it is a wartime incident and a similar situation, the military governs social order and public order itself, justice, and administration, but there is some possibility that the military will not respond to it.

[Anchor]
The lawmakers have now gathered in the plenary session room earlier than expected and speculated that the resolution was finally lifted in such a short period of time. Even if this is not the plenary session hall, can it be decided in the place where the lawmakers are gathered?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
It will be possible to make a decision. However, it is valid because there are few such cases, and it cannot be considered invalid, but in my view, it is effective when lawmakers gather and vote. But the problem is that if we have a meeting and try to make a resolution at the plenary session, a bill or something like that should be presented. Then we need that procedure again. Then, can such a proposal process be carried out properly when outside the parliament? There may also be another problem with the procedure. So yesterday, there was an opinion that the National Assembly can vote on it from outside, but of course, even if it is done outside the plenary session, if the process for such a bill is in place, I think that the resolution is effective if the resolution is made.

[Anchor]
As the Democratic Party said it would begin impeachment proceedings against President Yoon Suk Yeol, the earliest time was to propose impeachment today and vote 24 hours later. Please also explain the procedural process of the impeachment motion.

[Kim Kwang-sam]
One of the important things about impeachment is that we experienced the impeachment of former President Park Geun Hye, right? Then, you have to prosecute the impeachment first, and then the National Assembly has to start the voting process. Then, two-thirds of the lawmakers must approve the impeachment of the president to begin impeachment. Now the Democratic Party, the opposition party, and the ruling party have 108 seats. Then, if about eight seats leave, impeachment will be possible.

But I don't know what the people's power position will be in this regard. However, I think there was a consensus that impeachment should never be done within the power of the people, perhaps because of the ruling party. However, now that the emergency martial law has been declared and this has been lifted, I think the wall where the passport can take a single stand in the future has collapsed. It will be very important to know what CEO Han Dong-hoon thinks about this. President Yoon said, "Political self-harm".What will happen to those who supported President Yoon so much?

That includes lawmakers. It includes the people. Will such forces continue to support President Yoon or not? Most importantly, how many out of 108 seats will support impeachment within the people's power? I think it's going to be left and right. But now the emergency decree has been lifted and it's all over in one night. So the inside of the passport will be very confusing. Therefore, there is a high possibility that the party itself will set its direction through some meeting on this part. However, since it is divided into Chin-yoon and Chin-yoon, this can also be an inflection point that can be further divided.

[Anchor]
We are now pointing out the possibility of President Yoon's impeachment one by one, but wasn't there a strong argument for resignation at the same time as the impeachment? What do you think is the possibility of a scenario in which Yoon Suk Yeol's president resigns himself?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
We can't rule out the possibility. I can't rule it out, but when I announced the lifting of martial law today, I think I'm very solid. There are anti-state forces' maneuvers, these things. At the same time, he seems to have a firm belief that the emergency martial law he declared is justified. So I don't think there's any reason to be legally responsible for it or anything because it's declared a legitimate emergency martial law.

If you thought there was a reason, you would have lifted it and delivered a message to the people. But there was no such thing, and it's mainly emphasized that these things by anti-state forces are jeopardizing the country, so there's probably no reason to step down if you think you're not at fault. There's very little chance that he'll step down, and in some cases, if he's going to go ahead with impeachment, if he's going to go through with it, there's still room for the president to make another decision.

[Anchor]
Wasn't there going to be a vote on the impeachment of the Board of Audit and Inspection and prosecutors at the National Assembly today? In fact, I think we need to talk about the president's declaration of emergency martial law just before that, but the president said this when he declared it. I mentioned that the Democratic Party is paralyzing judicial work and paralyzing the administration.

Lawyer, since you were a prosecutor, you must have heard the atmosphere of the internal situation. How do you listen to and exemplify the atmosphere inside the prosecution now?

[Kim Kwang-sam]
It's still too short a time when it comes to lifting the emergency martial law, so it's hard to know right now whether it's the opinions of legal professionals regarding martial law. Regarding the prosecution's impeachment, of course, whether it is a luxury bag related to First Lady Kim Gun-hee or not prosecuting Deutsche Motors' stock price manipulation itself is not appropriate. It's unfair, so of course, I think the Democratic Party can judge it. However, it is the realm of law itself, and in the realm of law, the prosecutor makes decisions based on evidence and jurisprudence.

But I don't think it's right to impeach it just because it's different from what they think. In particular, in the case of the 4th deputy chief of the Central District Prosecutors' Office, the prosecutors under the jurisdiction are all involved in the trial related to representative Lee Jae-myung, whether it is Daejang-dong. So I think you can hear criticism that this is a retaliatory impeachment.

Nevertheless, if you impeach him, you will be suspended from your job and most of them will be decided within 6 months, right? Of course, it may be longer because it does not meet the requirements for the Constitutional Court to decide something now. Then, I think it's right to respond politically to that. In fact, this is not a problem that can be solved by declaring an emergency decree. Nevertheless, I think I was too urgent or focused on something more emotional.

[Anchor]
Just a moment ago, the lawyer said that President Yoon Suk Yeol seems to believe in the legitimacy of the reason when he declared the emergency martial law, but if this becomes a problem and he is charged with criminal responsibility or other parts later, the subjective judgment is that as president, I judged that the current situation is equivalent to the quasi-war situation. Could this be defensive logic?

[Kim Kwang Sam]
From your point of view, it can be defensive logic. If the opposition party's tyranny paralyzes the administration and the judiciary, and the budget bill prevents it from running the state smoothly in all areas of the country, this is equivalent to an incident. That's why they keep talking about judicial and administrative paralysis while declaring emergency martial law.

I think I was trying to emphasize that emphasizing that in itself constitutes a national emergency. Furthermore, since he repeatedly talks about government forces and anti-state forces, his subjective judgment seems to have judged that at least this would be an emergency and a requirement to declare emergency martial law.

So even though we declare an emergency martial law, the law is not subjectively judged. Isn't there a judiciary that knows that something can be a crime and does it without knowing that it is not meaningful and that it is objectively a criminal act? Moreover, emergency martial law is very important, so it is correct to interpret the requirements themselves quite strictly.

Nevertheless, declaring such emergency martial law in a state of being too subjective could result in a situation where, as I said, political leadership and, in some cases, legal responsibility must be taken.

[Anchor]
The president's declaration of emergency martial law was lifted in six hours anyway. I think there will be some legally controversial parts in the future, so please organize those parts.

[Kim Kwang Sam]
First of all, I think it's a midnight happening. Yesterday and this morning on YTN, I told you that there's a high possibility that this will end up as a happening event. Because when martial law is declared, the next follow-up measures must follow.

As stated in the martial law decree, follow-up measures should prevent political or political acts, but only the military can do that. Then, the most important thing is that most of the opponents of martial law are the media, so when the media was declared martial law before, all the soldiers came and took control.

However, it was done in the absence of any such preemptive measures. So maybe it'll come out sooner or later. Why did you declare martial law and why did you panic? Also, whether the military did not comply or lacked preparation. Since this is a very important issue in our history, I think it is very important to reveal the actual truth of the process, whether it is various parliamentary investigations or special prosecutors.

[Anchor]
I see. I talked to lawyer Kim Kwang-sam, a former prosecutor. Thank you.