[News Now] Han Dong-hoon, "Carefully demand defection"...Minju "Starting impeachment process"

■ Host: Kim Sun-young Anchor
■ Starring: Kim Hyung-joo, Special Professor at Semyung University, Shin Ji-ho, Vice President of Strategic Planning for People's Power,

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN News Special] when quoting.

[Anchor]
There is a strong political backlash. Let's take a look at the political atmosphere with the two. We invited Shin Ji-ho, the Vice President of the Strategic Planning Department of the People's Power, and Kim Hyung-joo, a special professor at Semyung University. Welcome. We connected to the National Assembly a little while ago and heard the voice of Han Dong-hoon. First of all, the emergency general meeting of lawmakers continued for hours, but I think it's over. According to what came in, there must have been some heated debate about the president's request to leave the party?

[Shin Jiho]
I guess so. At the emergency supreme council meeting held at 7 a.m., let's reprimand the defense minister, who asked the president to leave the party, followed by a request for an emergency martial law. Then the resignation of the Cabinet. There were three things like this, but only floor leader Choo Kyung-ho has reservations, and the rest of the Supreme Council members agreed. But let's make this clear once more through the protocol, but two of the three things, namely the censure of the Minister of National Defense, are dismissed. Second, there was a consensus on the resignation of the cabinet, but the pros and cons of leaving the president were mixed, so the discussion was decided to continue. That's the news. But for me, this act of last night was not supposed to happen and it was a riot that could not be rationalized for any reason. It was an anti-democratic tyranny. Then it was unconstitutional and illegal. As this is clear, I don't think the president can avoid responsibility for such unconstitutional or illegal measures. And I think we should organize the power of the people and break up with that.

[Anchor]
To clear up the morning situation, the Democratic Party of Korea also held an emergency meeting, but the president voluntarily resigns. He said he would bring out the impeachment card if he didn't. The People's Power also held a general meeting of lawmakers, and they all agreed on the resignation of the cabinet and the dismissal of the defense minister, but there are still disagreements within the party on the president's departure. This will be discussed further. CEO Han Dong-hoon expressed his position like this. Let's hear again how Han Dong-hoon, the representative of the People's Power, said after today's general meeting of lawmakers.

[HAN DONG HUN / Representative of the People's Power]
I made three suggestions at the Supreme Council and the General Assembly today. The first is the resignation of the cabinet, and the second is the dismissal of the defense minister. And the third was the president's demand for defection. There were a lot of random discussions by lawmakers at the general assembly. The first and second proposals have been largely collected.
There are many opinions on the third proposal, so I would like to continue to hear from you, and I would like to say that the General Assembly has reached such a tentative conclusion.

[Anchor]
The president should leave the party. There was a heated debate over the request, and according to the current reporter, for example, Yoo Young-ha expressed his position that we should learn from our impeachment last time and not to leave the party.

[Kim Hyung-joo]
It has a salami aspect as well. It will depend on how the ruling party does it and what the public opinion is, but anyway last night, 18 members of the People's Power joined forces and 190 members passed 100% of the vote overall. I think floor leader Choo Kyung-ho should take proper responsibility before simply leaving the presidential party. At least if it is a democratic party, regardless of whether the president leaves the party or not, they say that their excuses were difficult to enter the National Assembly by breaking the window, but at first, the report came out like that. But all the people with the National Assembly pass, aides, and lawmakers came in. Of course, some people couldn't come in and some people came over the wall. In that sense, if the people's power itself is in this position, if they came into the plenary session and blocked the airlift brigade from entering the National Assembly ahead of the opposition party, there would have been at least a chance for the president to offset some of the results of such inappropriate and wrong mistakes, but we should almost ask from the people's power as a whole.I don't know if Ma is intentional or not.Ma did not enter the plenary hall. I think that there will be various internal controversies about the power of the people in the future.

[Anchor]
I think I should ask you about the situation at dawn yesterday, but after representative Han Dong-hoon announced his position that he would be on the side of the people anyway, representative Han Dong-hoon was with close lawmakers in the plenary session hall. Floor leader Choo Kyung-ho was not seen, but he said he was in the floor leader's office. Why did that happen?

[Shin Jiho]
The reason why that happens is that representative Han Dong-hoon will work with the people to prevent unconstitutional and illegal emergency martial law. I sent the first message and decided to gather at the National Assembly, but the National Assembly was blocked. So we decided to gather at the company, so what are we going to do when we gather at the company? We tried to gather opinions at the meeting with representatives Han Dong-hoon and Choo Kyung-ho, but those who support Han Dong-hoon said, "We should take the lead in demanding the lifting of martial law because this is an unconstitutional and illegal measure even though the president is from our party. It's not such a free time. Isn't yesterday an emergency situation in which people compete for every minute and every second? Shouldn't you be free to collect opinions at that time? So, if floor leader Choo Kyung-ho had followed the opinion of representative Han Dong-hoon, we all went together and more than 18 people, at least 50 people, could have participated in the vote yesterday, but representative Choo Kyung-ho did not respond to it. That's why the current lawmakers who gathered on the third floor of the company at that time entered the plenary session hall with representative Han Dong-hoon.

The number is about 18. And as for the rest of us, don't ordinary members act at the direction of the floor leader at the general meeting or something like that? However, the floor leader himself is in the main office and does not go to the vote. For lawmakers who fail to enter other headquarters, just gather at the headquarters. As this happened, 50 lawmakers gathered in our company. Therefore, it is regrettable that the role of the people's power in one important scene in our constitutional history has weakened considerably due to the floor leader's back-and-forth policy.

[Anchor]
So, the leadership went two ways at a moment of urgency, and lawmakers were divided into two ways: the plenary session hall and the headquarters. Some say that floor leader Choo Kyung-ho did not communicate with Yongsan, but I think he called the party to prevent it from entering.

[Kim Hyung-joo]
I have no choice but to hear that. Because at first, there were actually some reports of that. The lawmakers also blocked the main gate and said they could not enter, but in the next scene, everyone with a National Assembly pass went in. In fact, aides went in and other National Assembly secretariat staff went in. Therefore, it is only an excuse for lawmakers not to come in, so basically, why did they actually bring the chairman of the Assembly to the company instead of the chairman of the Budget and Accounts Committee or anywhere else is enough to be criticized. It's because I don't have the judgment on this situation. How will the president's declaration of emergency martial law affect our party? So Mayor Oh Se-hoon and others say this was not appropriate. Although there are differences in degree. If so, in fact, this is a matter of later conflict between pro-Lee and pro-Yoon, and in order to save the party, we should have come to the plenary hall and prevented soldiers from entering. It made a big mistake in that respect, and in fact, we almost criticize the party. Is this a democratic party that has the power of the people? How much has the soldier really tried to escape the image of military dictatorship, so-called military officials, because of the declaration of martial law by the president? In one fell swoop, it was re-stigmatized by yesterday evening. Fortunately, the soldiers still acted naturally without much bumping into the citizens. I should say that's a relief.

[Anchor]
I didn't ask all the members of the People's Power, but anyway, when there is a floor vote, we are supposed to follow the floor leader's story, so then people who went to the company agree to declare martial law, right?

[Shin Jiho]
That's not what happened. The floor leader's guide is wrong, I see it like this. And I think the floor leader should take responsibility for such a poor leadership.

[Anchor]
If it is a corresponding responsibility, do you think there is a possibility that floor leader Choo Kyung-ho will take such a political responsibility as his resignation within today?

[Kim Hyung-joo]
Looking at it earlier, I don't think it's very likely. I'll stand next to CEO Han Dong-hoon and do it later. I said I'd do it at the next meeting, but you can't look like that. I'll stand right next to Representative Han Dong-hoon with an expression that seems to have no sense of what he did wrong or what he caused the party, and tell you at the afternoon meeting, it's not a situation where you can say this. As a result, the president's defection or the national cabinet is on the verge of any general upheaval, but I will discuss it as soon as we discuss it at the general meeting in the afternoon. This expression itself is very much the same as the Yeongnam vested interest.

[Anchor]
Since the declaration and lifting of martial law have a huge impact, what message and what the People's Power leadership will look like these days and today will be very important. According to today's top committee, Supreme Council member Kim Jae-won did not come and former Supreme Council member Kim Min-jeon did not come because he was sick.

[Shin Jiho]
That's because you might not be able to come because of your personal reasons. However, the decision of the Supreme Council has become a quorum. The two were absent due to personal reasons. In Yo-han, the so-called pro-Yoon-gye Supreme Council member, does not mean that he will solve everything with the three solutions proposed by representative Han Dong-hoon, but that there are three measures that should be taken at least in this situation. It's a solution that solves everything with this, and I didn't suggest it as a solution. However, Supreme Council member In Yo-han also agreed. Then, only floor leader Choo Kyung-ho will gather opinions again at the general meeting of lawmakers. It was a gunshot in that state, and two of the three earlier were collected and one more was discussed, and this is what happened.

[Anchor]
The atmosphere inside the people's power seems to be turning strangely. In fact, when Kim Min-seok, the supreme council member of the Democratic Party of Korea, talked about martial law a few months ago, many people wonder, why do they keep saying this? I had this reaction. This was also mentioned at the hearing of Defense Minister Kim Yong-hyun. Let's hear the story from that time again.

[Anchor]
What kind of people would tolerate it? Isn't it known that Minister Kim Yong-hyun, who responded like this, has now proposed declaring martial law?

[Kim Hyung-joo]
It's probably a fait accompli. If so, you can't trust the defense minister if you said that at an official hearing and made such a suggestion as it is reported now. And that position itself is not an individual position. It could be the president's position. Because the minister's answer to the minister's hearing itself is not an individual answer. as it represents the answer of this Government as a whole. If so, the president declared martial law last night and said, "Please trust me," and which people would trust the president and the defense minister? Aren't the people who have a president and a defense minister who are not trusted by the people unfortunate people? In fact, the president and the defense minister are the ones we can trust and follow the most when there is a national crisis, an accident, or a war, and they can no longer be recognized for their own legitimacy to say that they lied like that.

[Anchor]
Listening to last September, we can't check whether that information is correct or not, but isn't it right that Chunam faction is appearing in the process of declaring martial law now?

[Shin Jiho]
That's an undeniable reality. Didn't the Democratic Party of Korea confirm this suspicion, such as the suspicion? When Supreme Council member Kim Min-seok talked about it, I felt that a member of the National Assembly was so irresponsible, it was ridiculous, and it was President Yoon Suk Yeol who proved that he was right. What an irony. That's what I think about
. Then, yesterday, the main reason for the declaration of emergency martial law was the quasi-action of anti-state forces. Surreal in this way, 45 years of emergency martial law. This emergency martial law, which does not meet the requirements and has procedural defects, is 150 minutes until the National Assembly. It's actually been suppressed. Since it was suppressed, I don't know exactly who the anti-state forces that President Yoon Suk Yeol wanted to fight were, but they made them more active.
So it's just ridiculous how you came up with this surreal, anachronistic idea.

[Anchor]
Anti-state forces. But hasn't it been a while since President Yoon Suk Yeol used the term anti-state forces? In this context, then the card of martial law was not spontaneous, but was it thought of for a long time? I think there's also a view like this.

[Kim Hyung-joo]
Well, I don't know how long ago.Ma said yesterday, for example, the president asked me to trust him as his last remarks. But you went to Gongju the day before yesterday, so you trust me, right? That's what I said. It's hard to say that we've been preparing for that long, but we started having those discussions last weekend or early this week, I feel like that. So, I'm asking you to believe that one of the important words in martial law or impeachment is betrayal of the people. So he must have had his own anxiety about that. But that's what I'm saying. It's really about the piton trucs that make me incompetent. In other words, I am the good and I am the reform, but those who did not follow me are anti-state forces and pro-North Korean leftists, and they will be trapped in this frame in the future. So I only talk about people who fit the rhythm, so yes, let's do it. That's what happens. So who do you want to catch as a result? Politicians, do not engage in politics. Bring the doctors back. Journalists, get censored again. Isn't that what it is? What's that? So through this opportunity, in fact, who has the president been discussing with? There's no senior secretary for political affairs in the presidential office for reporters to ask about this case last night, and we can't talk on the phone. Even the ruling party doesn't know. Then who is the president talking to? As a result of this, there was a misjudgment that did not gain public consensus and a misjudgment. That's how I see it.

[Anchor]
Why did the president suddenly declare martial law yesterday? There are many speculations in the political world about the reason. Lee Joon-seok, a member of the New Reform Party, analyzed the background of declaring martial law. Let's listen to it. [Anchor] First of all, the background of the declaration of martial law, so let's have an independent counsel, so let's have an independent counsel, right after the announcement came out, so shouldn't we doubt this?

[Shin Jiho]
That's lawmaker Lee Jun-seok's personal opinion, so I don't think there's any reason for me to comment on that. It is true that the president has made remarks that seem to imply emergency martial law or something in a comfortable position. But isn't it to say strongly that I'm not going to be pushed around by someone like that in a comfortable place? At first, that's how people understood it. No way. In the reality of Korea, which became the world's state-of-the-art country and the world's leading country when there was a black-and-white TV 45 years ago, this is why I see it as surreal. So, Supreme Council member In Yo-han said that at the Supreme Council meeting this morning, many people are saying that it is hard to understand the president's mental world.

[Anchor]
However, looking at the timing of various political events, the situation is clearly a situation in which the possibility of the release of Myung Tae-kyun's golden phone increases. And there are only a few days left until the re-decision of the special prosecutor Kim Gun-hee. There can be enough interpretations of whether it reflects such a situation.

[KIM HYEONGJUN]
That's right. Chae's participation in the parliamentary investigation means that he will control the Democratic Party from dictatorship rather than cooperation, but unfortunately, the independent counsel, Myung Tae-kyun, Chae Sang-byung, and Kim Gun-hee, are actually in contact with their own judicial risks if they go deeper. The foreign press all focused on it. Risk for herself and Mrs. Kim Gun-hee, and low approval ratings. Formally speaking, we talked about the originally scheduled issues of the Board of Audit and Inspection, the Democrats' brutality in impeaching the chief prosecutor, and budget cuts.Ma argues that it is a formal justification, and in reality, the case of Myung Tae-kyun, Chae Sang-byung, the parliamentary investigation, and the independent counsel Kim Gun-hee themselves are falling into a real disadvantage. Also speaking through such things, the defense minister is trying to soothe such psychology. Rather than doing this, let's beat up such anti-state forces, but I think the president suddenly agreed.

[Anchor]
Anyway, martial law was declared and subsequently lifted ahead of the re-decision of the special prosecutor Kim Gun-hee. In any case, in the case of the power of the people, even if only eight votes leave now, this will pass. There is a high possibility that the atmosphere will change due to this incident.

[Shin Jiho]
It's rather strange if you say there's none at all. There must be, but Kim Gun-hee's independent counsel law is also a special counsel, but now the Democratic Party of Korea demands the president's voluntary resignation, and if he refuses to step down, he will go to the impeachment. So I'm even suggesting a time schedule. It means that the impeachment bill has been drafted, so that it can be voted on two days after tomorrow, but the departure of eight people is very important at that time. Rather, at the current pace of progress, the Kim Gun-hee Special Prosecutor's Act could rather lose ground on the Democratic Party's priorities. In this atmosphere, the Democratic Party of Korea originally decided to impeach the auditor and the head of the Seoul Central District Prosecutors' Office today. I've pushed that back now, too. The priorities are also changing in the Democratic Party. So our party needs to quickly decide its position on that part.

[Anchor]
Do you have any behind-the-scenes discussions?

[Shin Jiho]
The behind-the-scenes discussion has already begun. But in 2016, didn't the ruling Saenuri Party, which was in power at the time, have about 60 lawmakers participated in the impeachment of President Park Geun Hye? Perhaps that's why we can't hold President Yoon Suk Yeol accountable, but wouldn't it be a little problem to hold him accountable through impeachment? I think there are a lot of opinions like that.

[Anchor]
Even before martial law was declared, Supreme Council member Kim Min-seok said, "We have to win within six months," but from Lee Jae-myung's point of view, he has an opportunity to dilute judicial risks. They'll speed up the impeachment process, right? What do you think?

[Kim Hyung-joo]
For example, focusing is through shortening the term of office, a constitutional amendment, or a way for the president to soft-land each other. Then I think there could be a time fight to get to the Grand Code. In particular, even if a quick trial is conducted on election law, wouldn't there be an opportunity to survive if, for example, the impeachment of the president or the constitutional amendment to shorten his term of office? We can have this discussion.Ma doesn't mean it'll all come true just because you think about it. I think we should lead it through various internal discussions.

[Anchor]
The power of the people must also be quite complicated internally. Anyway, representative Han Dong-hoon is in a position to hold the president of Yoon Suk Yeol accountable, but he is also responsible as a leader of the conservative party as a whole. For example, they choose to open the presidential road for representative Lee Jae-myung, what do you think about this?

[Shin Jiho]
Of course. Representative Han Dong-hoon is the leader of the conservative camp, and isn't the president actually going to a situation where he is not functioning normally like that? That's why the responsibility has become more heavy. as a leader of the conservative camp However, should we say that the president's yesterday's act is ridiculous to Lee Jae-myung, who should be rescued from judicial risk and, as Supreme Court Kim Min-seok says, hold an early presidential election within six months and be elected from there. So, if President Yoon Suk Yeol did anything wrong, he should weigh it up, and if Representative Lee Jae-myung is tried and responsible, he should go with it. The Democratic Party of Korea should keep in mind that if President Yoon Suk Yeol made a serious error and jumped on it and did this as if all their problems were not there, I think a strict national judgment will follow.

[Anchor]
Anyway, in the case of Representative Cho Kyung-tae, who is classified as a close acquaintance, he mentioned that all possibilities are open in relation to the impeachment card. Let's hear from him. Breaking news just came in. Breaking news has been heard that all members of the Cabinet have expressed their resignation to Prime Minister Han Deok-soo. Prime Minister Han Duck-soo, the ruling party and the presidential office are scheduled to hold an emergency meeting this afternoon, this is the breaking news. Prime Minister Han Deok-soo is also seen now. It seems that Prime Minister Han Deok-soo's official position has not yet come out. All members of the State Council expressed their resignation to Prime Minister Han Deok-soo, and this breaking news just came in. In fact, it's the resignation of the cabinet, can I just look at it like this?

[KIM HYEONGJUN]
That's how we should look at it. In fact, there was a similar expression of resignation from Prime Minister Han Deok-soo in April this year. And even if this doesn't happen, there were parts where there were heavy reshuffles, including the replacement of old ministers, and the prime minister. For now, it is necessary to resign from the entire cabinet. In addition, the chief of staff and other senior secretaries expressed their intention to resign. So, as a whole, it can enter a state of absence, so there will probably be various internal discussions on how to deal with this situation in the afternoon. In addition, as Representative Shin Ji-ho said earlier, that does not mean that Representative Lee Jae-myung is elected by holding an early presidential election through this opportunity. At the same time, I think I'll seek the wisdom of making this situation soft.

[Anchor]
Prime Minister Han Deok-soo, the ruling party, floor leader Choo Kyung-ho, and representative Han Dong-hoon will participate. The ruling party and the president's office will hold an emergency meeting in the afternoon, so we should also watch this situation. As we previously told you, after the emergency general meeting of the lawmakers today, the opinions of the party members were gathered on the resignation of the cabinet and the dismissal of the defense minister. I've announced this. The breaking news came in right away, right?

[Shin Jiho]
So, in order to invoke martial law, we have to go through a Cabinet meeting. It is not a decision of the State Council, but it must be deliberated by the State Council. However, according to some reports, a Cabinet meeting was held last night, and participants, including Prime Minister Han Duck-soo, strongly opposed it. Nevertheless, the final decision is made if the president decides to do so according to martial law, because he did not have voting rights but had the right to express his opinion. Because it's the president's own authority. I heard that's what happened. In any case, such legal restrictions, even if they were limited, shouldn't they have stopped them by throwing themselves by any means? In that respect, the members of the State Council are also responsible.

[Anchor]
It's because the attendance itself has a weight.

[Shin Jiho]
And the chief of staff and the chief of staff of the presidential office in Yongsan couldn't be stopped. How can this happen? It's not an excuse for the president to keep it a secret and not know. [Anchor] Anyway, the Democratic Party of Korea has heard about the representative of the country a while ago, but it is strongly demanding voluntary resignation, and it is said that a candlelight vigil will be held from today. In this situation, there must be many scenarios for the president's choice. For example, do you think there is a possibility of voluntary resignation?

[Shin Jiho]
In terms of the president's usual style, he's not the type to voluntarily resign. I'm 10 times more reluctant to do it because I'm pushed by someone than the average person. So I don't think I'm going to resign voluntarily. Then, the opposition party seems to be talking about impeachment first, as to how to hold them accountable when they refuse to resign voluntarily.

[Anchor]
Many people wonder that the martial law declaration card is a card that cannot be easily taken out, but the reason for taking out the card is that the military and police moved and Lee Joon-seok shouted at the police a little while ago, and he was agitated.
What do you think about that?

[KIM HYEONGJUN]
It's fire-resistant. In fact, the martial law commander was appointed as the army general. But the army is in Gyeryongdae. Of course, it is true that the airborne brigade and the water brigade came to the National Assembly quickly, but is it a practical decision-making by martial law history or can there be? It was an urgent video conference, but I think that if martial law was declared so quickly, frankly, there was no such thing as taking over the National Assembly Rotender Hall or taking over the broadcasting station, and I think I felt that the soldiers themselves were basically unjustified orders. Otherwise, they could have been clubbed or unauthorized, as much as they could. It's not a matter of later. And yesterday, a bus came from the Army and a small Starex came, but it went backwards. So I don't know if the commander in chief ordered it from the martial law perspective.Ma said that there was not much justification for this from the middle executive's point of view, so he probably didn't tell the people down there to avoid casualties, but of course, some windows were broken.It will be a very big problem for the president later on. It could be a matter of illegality.Fortunately, there was no excessive physical struggle or killing with the people or with the lawmakers, right? That itself was the result of the president's declaration of martial law itself. As a citizen, the soldiers had no choice but to respond softly because they were not so justifiable as lawmaker Lee Joon-seok said earlier. In the end, it seems that the preparation was not thorough and there was no justification in response.

[Anchor]
Finally, for Vice-President Shin Ji-ho, the moment has come when the choice of the leader of the ruling party is quite important anyway. The cabinet resignation card has been issued, so please tell me which areas to focus on in the future.

[Shin Jiho]
Anyway, the function of the Yoon Suk Yeol regime has almost been suspended. It's because it's hard to function properly. However, it is difficult to predict what kind of process will go through after that, but I think it is the responsibility given to the ruling party leader to create a process that many common sense people can sympathize with, rather than extreme division and extreme struggle.

[Anchor]
There will be a meeting between the presidential office and the ruling party in the afternoon, so we'll wait and see what other decisions will be made here. So far, it has been Shin Ji-ho, Vice President of the Strategic Planning Department of People's Power, and Kim Hyung-joo, two special professors at Semyung University. Thank you.