Lee Jaemyung, "I won't die"...Scream world, shall we dig into the one-polar system?

■ Host: Kim Sun-young Anchor
■ Starring: Yoon Hee-seok, the People's Power Pre-Lease Spokesperson, Seo Yong-ju, Director of the Political and Social Research Institute

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN NewsNOW] when quoting.

[Anchor]
Political commentary with a living angle, let's start at the minute. Today, we have Yoon Hee-seok, a spokesman for the People's Power, and Seo Yong-ju, director of the Political and Social Research Institute. Welcome. Since Lee Jae-myung's first trial was sentenced, the political circle has been growing. Let's watch the related video first.

a realized judicial risk Representative Lee Jae-myung came to the rally the day after the sentence and said this. Lee Jae-myung doesn't die. That's what I said. What message did he want to give to his supporters?

[Yoon Heesuk]
First of all, it did not end for supporters who were disappointed or discouraged by the first trial's ruling. He will continue his politics, and the Democratic Party's unipolar system centered on Lee Jae-myung remains completely unchanged. I should think of it as a statement to emphasize this point. The sentence was higher than expected, so everyone would be surprised, and they would think a lot about the repercussions, but I saw it as a statement based on the expectation that if the situation is not resolved quickly, the leadership of Chairman Lee Jae-myung in the party will be hit hard.

[Anchor]
According to the report, the outdoor rally gathered similar people to the first one, but should I consider Lee Jae-myung as judging that I will still be able to maintain this unification only when I appear?

[Applicant owner]
That's right. I think the first trial itself was a little confusing because there was an unexpectedly high prison sentence for depriving the right to run for election. After all, the first trial sentence is not a final decision. Until now, there is a presumption of innocence until a final ruling is made, so he is serving as the leader of the opposition party from the status of innocence, but it can be somewhat confusing for party members and within the party. In that sense, the party leader can come forward and clean up this chaotic situation within the party because various conflicts and other thoughts can be made. So don't worry about things like this that you're not dead. Chairman Lee Jae-myung seems to be a strong presidential candidate in the opposition party, saying that he will go without wavering. If you think about it, CEO Lee Jae-myung must have many thoughts. For example, the court's first sentence itself, following the prosecution's persistent and indiscriminate political investigation and prosecution in the Yoon Suk Yeol government, is a very fatal deprivation of the right to run for election as a politician. If it's a prison sentence, it's five years or 10 years, if it's confirmed. That is why it is a requirement for various supporters within the party to be agitated. But in order to get a little bit more of these things together, I think it's necessary to show a stronger message and a message that's healthy.

[Anchor]
Representative Lee Jae-myung, who emphasized that I will not die, emphasized this message to his supporters that they should not give up. Let's listen to it. You are exactly as you said

. You can't give up. Don't relax, just tease a finger and write a comment. That's what I said. Is this the message that the supporters are asking for some active movement?

[Yoon Heesuk]
From Lee Jae-myung's point of view, he has no choice but to believe that he needs to give such a strong message to his supporters so that he can mobilize cohesion in the upcoming elections without shrinking his support. However, although these stories and remarks contain meanings, public sentiment, court of history, and these arguments are the core logic of such arguments that deny the judicial system, just like representative Lee Jae-myung now. Now, we are not talking about the outcome of the sentence of Representative Lee Jae-myung, but about the outcome of the trial. The trial is done by the judge in the court. In that court, the lawyer is defending, and the prosecution maintains the prosecution, and the presiding judge decides after seeing the battle between the two. But he suddenly teased his supporters about this and told them to write comments. This is a denial of our existing system itself. I want to point out strongly that the Democratic Party of Korea, which is self-confident of an authoritarian party, should not be caught up in this kind of logic. [Anchor] It's not enough to just gather our support. I think you're urging me to show you something more. Are they specifically talking about how to move from now on?

[Applicant owner]
First of all, the judgment of the court itself cannot be denied at all, but the trial was excessive given various positions within the party. Some point out that the judge's various prejudices or subjections have been included too much. I think that's a legal issue to be considered in the appeal trial. Politically, representative Lee Jae-myung has no choice but to show that he will go without shaking. The factor that can be shown internally is to go unwavering on the part that I've been doing as the party leader. So, if we don't do this about Kim Gun-hee, the special prosecutor on the incompetence of the Yoon Suk Yeol government, the country will falter, but we will more strongly approve the support of the party members by insisting on external aspects. On the contrary, it is to continue to pursue the parts that Lee Jae-myung has done in the people's livelihood. If the two axes are shaken even a little, it can be as if representative Lee Jae-myung is shaken by the first trial's ruling. So it's okay to do it stronger, but if you go too far to one side, you can get a public view that Lee Jae-myung feels very burdened about judicial risks against him, so it may be a little more confusing, but I think it's a time when Lee Jae-myung takes the center stage and shows his leadership.

[Anchor]
There can be many perspectives, but in a way, those rather extreme remarks reflect mental shock and anxiety because they are the day after the sentence.

[Yoon Heesuk]
That's a good interpretation. CEO Lee Jae-myung also did not expect such a sentence at all, so he would have needed time to organize this on his own, but since he has to hold an outdoor rally the very next day, we also thought that he would come to an outdoor rally. In the end, he came out and made such a strong argument, and I would like to evaluate that the important thing was that he was a true political leader only when he considered this part of his own judicial risk.

[Anchor]
There is a backlash within the Democratic Party of Korea against the ruling of the first trial. "It's a clear judicial murder." That's what they said. Let's listen to it.

The invisible hand worked. He also revealed distrust in the judiciary, and in fact, there is a view that attacking the judiciary like this will not be advantageous for the remaining rulings in the future, even after the sentencing of the first trial. How do you see it?

[Applicant owner]
There are such concerns, but given that the prosecution's prosecution itself is a political prosecution, it seems that the court has no choice but to claim that it has made a political ruling without judging it as a political prosecution. The Democratic Party of Korea is not just this when prosecutors have indicted representative Lee Jae-myung on various issues so far, right? As Lee Jae-myung serves as the leader of the opposition party, there are two more trials, including public election law, perjury teacher, and so on. There's Baekhyun-dong, too. Due to various prosecution prosecutions, four trials are now scheduled, but it became the first. Then, the rest of the court has no choice but to doubt whether it can really distinguish this from political prosecution, and there was a suspicion that various invisible hands on the prosecution's power worked in the current government, but when the court sentenced the opposition leader, who the court could not understand, that atmosphere is prevalent in the party. Wouldn't lawmaker Jung Sung-ho have done the same? In my opinion, he was a lawyer, but he thinks he is innocent.

This is innocent when arguing in various ways, but to argue that the first trial court thinks it may have been influenced by various external factors that are subjective and not legal, leave that part out of the appeals court next time. If there is such a part of the act or judgment, it can be seen as saying that Lee Jae-myung can be acquitted at the appeal trial, but the Democratic Party of Korea has no choice but to do so. The opposition leader, then the likely presidential candidate in the progressive camp, will be confused if he is deprived of his right to run for election, right?

[Anchor]
Do you think you can even impeach a judge?

[Applicant owner]
Impeachment of a judge doesn't seem to be in a good direction. It can be argued emotionally, but if it actually goes as far as impeaching a judge, wouldn't it be a vicious cycle when the Democratic Party takes power later if the party denies and denies the order of the judicial system? I can argue a little about that, but I don't put it into practice.

[Anchor]
Do you think there is no possibility that it will be discussed within the party even after the first trial of perjury?

[Applicant owner]
I think the possibility of being discussed lies in my personal judgment. There will be people who can claim that. among strong waves But within the party, the impeachment of a judge is carried out according to the sentence of a perjury teacher? It shouldn't be like that. I don't think it will be implemented in that area.

[Anchor]
Appeals remain anyway. The Democratic Party of Korea is arguing like this, but it would be good if you could show a graphic of how the guilt was judged in the first trial. In the first trial, Democratic Party Chairman Lee Jae-myung was found guilty and innocent in connection with his past remarks.

Please show us the contents. First of all, he ruled that he was guilty of saying that the golf photo was fabricated, and he did not know Kim Moon-ki when he was mayor of Seongnam. This is exonerated. Due to the threat of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport, the site of Baekhyun-dong has been upgraded. It's a conviction to say this. The Democratic Party of Korea will respond to the appeals court with the same strategy as in the first trial, but if so, the guilty part should be overturned as innocent, but that golf photo is manipulated. Regarding this, the Democratic Party of Korea has never said that it didn't play golf. How do you see that?

[Yoon Heesuk]
To be honest, this argument should have been delivered efficiently by the lawyer to the court at the court. If you look at Lee Jae-myung's remarks at the time, he said he played golf and presented a picture, but there is a saying that it was manipulated.

[Anchor]
This picture is the problem right now.

[Yoon Heesuk]
That's right. Isn't it true that the court considered it guilty of the fact that the people who played golf in the photos taken by several people were referred to as manipulation and that people who didn't know the post-war situation were not playing golf when they heard it?
There is no reason to make such a claim after the first trial ruling. If the Democratic Party says it won't change its strategy, but the results of the trial don't come out to the level they expect, then the lawyer should be impeached. Shouldn't you change your lawyer and your defense strategy? If you don't change it and just go, I think the second trial will go as it is. At least in the Democratic Party, the first reaction is to respect the court ruling, which should come out first. I don't think continuing to make political statements in this way without it will help the future of the Democratic Party at all.

[Anchor]
In any case, the Democratic Party of Korea claims that this statement that Lee Jae-myung's photo was fabricated did not mean that he did not play golf, but the court refutes that it made a subjective interpretation.

[Applicant owner]
So, the part that predicted the guilt is that the photo was a major one. So I didn't say I didn't play golf, but I only expanded the photos of the late Kim Moon-ki and the photos of then-Mayor Lee Jae-myung to say that I know something about him.

[Anchor]
So you said this photo was fabricated, right?

[Applicant owner]
That's right. It was manipulated with such pictures as much as the court could see. So, I'm not saying that the manipulation was made false, but to give such a suspicion, the lawyers of representative Lee Jae-myung are saying this, but the judge would have known the details of the manipulation if he had known more about it, but he decided to be guilty because he judged that he did not play golf. So, the Democratic Party of Korea is talking about whether it was a little wrong after predicting guilt, and then the decision to change Baekhyun-dong's use to the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport was made by Lee Jae-myung, and whether it is not related to the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport is a mandatory clause or not. It is not the first trial court on this case.

No matter what the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport says, it is the mayor's decision, so he falsely pleaded guilty to this, but there is clearly room for dispute, so there seems to be no evidence and legal principles that can suggest other things strategically. So in the end, the reason why the Democratic Party does not revise its strategy is that the court is wrong. Even the same court seems to have decided that this cannot be admitted as guilty from this perspective. I'll fight at the appeals court, but after all, I'm like that. I don't think this part needs to continue to be a street of comment or a street of analysis legally. The decision has been made to some extent, but this is a legal matter that the lawyers of Lee Jae-myung, whether it is the prosecution or the prosecution, will contend with in the appellate court. Even if this is right or wrong, in the end, we will say that we are wrong and that we are right. However, since the conclusion is made by the appeals court, I think it will be much better for Lee Jae-myung to have a legal dispute until this week and go to the next step and the political step.

[Anchor]
CEO Han Dong-hoon and CEO Lee Jae-myung are tightening the offensive. This morning, I said that intimidating a judge is more like a self-harm to receive a heavy sentence. Let's listen to it.

[Anchor]
CEO Han Dong-hoon, who read the motion to arrest Lee Jae-myung at the time of the Minister of Justice, is raising his voice ahead of the first trial of the perjury teacher. You're analyzing that there will be a prison sentence close to medium-sized.

[Yoon Heesuk]
That's right. In the past five years, 38 cases have been sentenced for perjury teacher crimes, and 29 cases have been sentenced to prison or suspended. About 76 percent, but given such a situation, it is generally expected that the first trial ruling on Lee Jae-myung's perjury teacher will also be difficult to avoid prison time. On top of that, there is a mention of legal detention requirements, and when the arrest agreement was passed at the end of the 21st National Assembly last time, when representative Han Dong-hoon was a minister, the request for arrest agreement included charges of perjury. The National Assembly's judgment on that was agreed. That's why I said that if you are sentenced to prison in the first trial of the perjury teacher, there is no problem with your current status as a lawmaker in such a situation where you are arrested in court. In conclusion, the court's judgment is likely to come out so seriously, but it was said that political out-of-the-court rallies should not pose a threat to the judicial system, and Lee Jae-myung wrote on social media eight years ago in the face of impeachment. Legal interpretation is not done by criminals, but by judges and prosecutors. Literally, I think that's the core of CEO Han Dong-hoon today, the desire to practice himself.

[Anchor]
If you look again, this is a legal story, so if you are sentenced to prison in the first trial of a perjury teacher, legally speaking, you can be arrested because the arrest agreement was passed last year. Is this how you interpret it?

[Yoon Heesuk]
Therefore, the consent of the National Assembly is required when arresting incumbent lawmakers in court, but when the arrest agreement was passed at the end of the 21st National Assembly, the charges were read against the perjury teacher and the National Assembly agreed on it. So, get back the consent of the National Assembly from the court, it can't be like this.

[Anchor]
In any case, the first trial of the perjury teacher will also be concluded next Monday afternoon, and if a prison sentence comes out in this trial, would it be called a shocker for the Democratic Party? There are predictions that it could be much bigger than this one, so what do you think of that?

[Applicant owner]
The impact won't be small. So, even though the first trial was the one that responded lightly among the four trials, the first trial sentence came out very severe. Since the perjury teacher itself had to respond a little closely to this part, if the judicial judgment of the opposition leader comes out in prison in succession, the shock is inevitable, it cannot be denied. Nevertheless, it's the first trial. Since it is not confirmed because it is the first trial, there may be various supplementary measures or countermeasures, but if he is sentenced to prison in a row with combos, representative Lee Jae-myung may shrink a little politically. The party's supporters could shrink, and it is true that the party members and members of the party around them are complicated.

So, if it is time for the leader's wisdom in this regard and this is not just a level that can be sealed with external struggle, I think it would be good to make plans to listen to the public sentiment of the center and the public sentiment about what the party members mean. I can't help but say a word about Han Dong-hoon, the leader of the ruling party, is showing a very inappropriate attitude and I don't know if he wants to become a leader in the conservative party in the future, but the opposition leader, who has to cooperate with Miu and Gow, is in trouble, and I can help him on that part in my own way. It can be said that the justice of the judiciary is alive or that the river of justice is alive like floor leader Choo Kyung-ho, but it talks about court arrest and threatens the court, and then it is an act of self-harm that cannot avoid heavy punishment. I think it's too emotional for me as the leader of the ruling party to do things like this. So you can do it at least once because those attitudes are not helpful to you, but what you continue to do is not from the standpoint of the ruling party preparing yourself as a future power. Are you not going to meet CEO Lee Jae-myung before the final ruling? How can we meet after talking about that? Politics should be done. Leader of the opposition party, leader of the ruling party. I want you to use that wisdom.

[Anchor]
We had a meeting with the leaders of the ruling and opposition parties a while ago, but would it be a little disappointing for Lee Jae-myung?

[Applicant owner]
I'm a bit disappointed. It's not possible to meet them if you talk about that. When it comes to court arrest, it means to go to prison. So it's not right to use those direct speech methods.

[Anchor]
Anyway, the sentence came out while people are talking about a meeting between the ruling and opposition parties soon, but did representative Han Dong-hoon think of the first trial and postpone the date? How did you do that?

[Yoon Heesuk]
I don't think so, but anyway, with the situation like this, there are many obstacles to our political actions with representative Lee Jae-myung. Representative Lee Jae-myung also talked about impeachment against President Yoon and asked him to meet with him. That's the way politics is. The reality is harsh, but anyway, Chairman Lee Jae-myung is still the leader of the Democratic Party and the final decision has not been made, so I hope you make a good judgment for the future of the party, your future, and the future of Korean politics.

[Anchor]
What do you mean by a good judgment?

[Yoon Heesuk]
They say we have to take political responsibility seriously. Making extreme claims due to their own judicial risks itself is because they think they will not be welcomed by their supporters.

[Anchor]
The inside of the Democratic Party of Korea will also be wriggling. There are talks that the screaming world will move, too. Rep. Choi Min-hee of the Democratic Party said this. Let's listen to it.

[Anchor]
Some radical remarks were made. Some even said they would kill him. Was the screaming world scared to hear it? What do you think?

[Applicant owner]
I don't think the screaming world heard that. I think the party members heard it. So now, lawmakers who are next to Lee Jae-myung should not talk about that. Chairman Lee Jae-myung's judicial risk will be on the 25th, and if we try to come together and respond to something in this area, is what Representative Choi Min-hee said now a remark that drives the division of the party or a statement that drives integration? You divide yourself. It is the story of the media that the screaming world is moving now. This is not true that representative Lee Jae-myung already existed before the judicial risk, and of course, representative Lee Jae-myung should be the presidential candidate. That's why I just moved, but as judicial risks become visible, the screaming world moves even if the media moves a little. Then Rep. Choi Min-hee knows that, but if you move this, you will die, let's say you understand up to this point. Everyone will die if they divide. But I'm going to kill with the party members. I'm not saying this. I don't know if there is a screamer or not, but you have to apologize to them or express your position on the part that it was not appropriate. This is a remark that is not appropriate for a lawmaker and a lawmaker who assists and protects representative Lee Jae-myung next to him. I'm a little disappointed.

[Anchor]
However, isn't it the background that he was confident that the screaming world would move when he wrote such extreme remarks?

[Yoon Heesuk]
Right. It's showing the other way around. It is a situation that is threatened enough to even use such words. The outcome of this trial is so shocking. So if I was shaken, what would happen to my political future if the other side of the party appeared, I would have gone this far. I think it is necessary for Representative Choi Min-hee to apologize because his remarks are so excessive.

[Anchor]
Do you actually see a creeping start in the Democratic Party? How do you see that?

[Yoon Heesuk]
Of course, that's what I see. No one can think that Lee Jae-myung's judicial risk is not necessarily due to the judgment of the first trial, but that he has been conducting four trials before, and that this abnormal situation is not all innocent. Members and supporters who are meaningful to the Democratic Party of Korea will, of course, be making it clear that Representative Lee Jae-myung's preparation for this situation and alternatives to it, and if the perjury teacher ruling on the 25th is sentenced to heavy punishment as expected, I expect this move to be very visible.

[Anchor]
Eventually, Plan B, other runners will start to move, these things are slowly coming out. The media is now paying attention to the three Kims. Governor of Gyeonggi-do Province Kim Dong-yeon, former Prime Minister Kim Boo-kyum, and former Governor of Gyeongnam Kim Kyung-soo. It's called Shin 3 Kim. It's not moving in earnest right now, but it's being discussed as an alternative.

[Applicant owner]
We can talk about it as an alternative. Coincidentally, Kim Kyung-soo, the former governor of South Gyeongsang Province, came out the best in the picture. I think the rest of you wrote a picture that didn't laugh.

[Anchor]
We don't have an intention.

[Applicant owner]
That's right. But as I said earlier, I can't deny that Chairman Lee Jae-myung is a strong candidate for the next presidential election in the Democratic Party. Since I've been the two-term representative. He has a high approval rating. Nevertheless, should the party dream of presidency or give up its own political path in the future? That's not right. If there are people who have various dreams, they move within the permitted range to realize their dreams. However, it is assumed that Lee Jae-myung's judicial risk becomes a reality by accident, and he runs as if he was waiting for it, but if those three have started some political steps, some of them have not, but after all, they are going their own way. In the meantime, he was sentenced to judicial risk, and for example, representative Lee Jae-myung was acquitted in the first trial. So you're going to say that their movements are the same, but their movements are reduced? It's like that.

So the media can say that, and the person watching from the side can make such an analysis that can give such fun, but at least from the standpoint of senior members within the party and judging it, when representative Lee Jae-myung is in crisis, the message of unity should not be killed with the party members. And aren't they also helping that the message is unfortunate and that the judiciary is close to judicial murder in this regard? Former Governor Kim Kyung-soo is silent now, but he will make a stand when he returns. So in that regard, I just want to see it as a healthy movement because the people who are splitting inside can be the people who surround Lee Jae-myung in the real-life group, not those people. in any public hall So I'm not a Plan B, I'm just a movement to show that I'm alive as a certain public party, of course. I think it would be much better to see it like that.

[Anchor]
I'm sure you'll be careful to say it. I think it would be good if you could show the graphic in a big way again. Spokesperson Yoon Hee-seok, there are now talks that his real name will also think about alternatives internally, so if you think about it, who would it be?

[Yoon Heesuk]
My name would think of someone closer, but I don't know. I can't choose.

[Anchor]
None of these three?

[Yoon Heesuk]
I don't think it's Governor Kim Kyung-soo. First of all, from the atmosphere within the Democratic Party of Korea, it is difficult to go with those close to former President Moon Jae In and Representative Lee Jae-myung to the extent that the terms "pro-name" and "pro-Moon" exist. In such a situation, former Governor Kim Kyung-soo, who is in the red of the pro-Moon, will not be given such a good look by the pro-Moon circle. Although the colors of Governor Kim Dong-yeon and former Prime Minister Kim Boo-kyum are not very clear politically, but since they have some nominations and have served in such high-ranking positions as prime minister, deputy prime minister, and governor, wouldn't the two of them be closer if they think about alternatives in the pro-Moon circle of the Democratic Party? The other two.

[Anchor]
Kim Boo-kyum, Kim Dong-yeon.

[Yoon Hee-seok]
Yes, I can expect that.

[Anchor]
Since the political imagination is coming out in many branches, many people expected such a move to support former Governor Kim Kyung-soo in the pro-Moon camp. How do you see that?

[Applicant owner]
So, in the Old World, it doesn't mean that it's overshadowed at all. For example, there are three people, but in the case of former Governor Kim Kyung-soo, should I say that the political assets of the Democratic Party are the best in the case of the former governor Kim Kyung-soo? I should say it's outstanding. Because he was the last secretary of former President Roh Moo Hyun, and didn't he also contribute to winning the presidential election despite various judicial risks with former President Moon Jae In? So, if you look at the spirit of Roh Moo Hyun and Moon Jae In, he is the candidate who has the most advantages among the three, with the legitimacy of the Democratic Party. Also, because I am young and have a better image than various public recognition, I think there are people who think of such sudden rise theory under the surface, but not yet. Now is the time to unite all efforts to overcome representative Lee Jae-myung's judicial risks, so I believe former Governor Kim Kyung-soo probably sympathizes with that.

[Anchor]
It's not time for an alternative owner yet?

[Applicant owner]
That's right. I think it's still a little early in terms of timing.

[Anchor]
Let's stop here. Yoon Hee-seok, a spokesman for the People's Power, and Seo Yong-ju, director of the Political and Social Research Institute. Thank you.