[New Square 2PM] Lee Jaemyung, a week later..."Perjury Teacher" Sentenced to the First Trial

■ Host: anchor Lee Se-na, anchor Na Kyung-chul
■ Starring: lawyer Lim Joo-hye

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN New Square 2PM] when quoting.

[Anchor]
Let's look at the incidents and accidents that are receiving a lot of attention.

Case 2, today we will be with lawyer Lim Joo-hye. Please come in.

[Lim Joo-hye]
Hello,

[Anchor]
It's last Friday, and the first trial of Lee Jae-myung, the leader of the Democratic Party of Korea, on charges of violating the Public Official Election Act came out, but won't the first trial of perjury be issued next Monday, a week later? Let's see what it's about.

[Lim Joo-hye]
A first trial sentence is also scheduled for next Monday, November 25 in the perjury teacher case. If you look at this allegation, the case goes back to 2002. CEO Lee Jae-myung was fined in 2004 for conspiring with KBS PD to impersonate a prosecutor, but during the 2018 Gyeonggi governor election, Lee Jae-myung made the claim that I had never called him a prosecutor, which was a false accusation, which raised the issue. At that time, the publication of false information was a problem, and in order to be acquitted in this regard, Kim Jin-sung, the secretary of Seongnam Mayor at the time, demanded perjury to testify in favor of Lee Jae-myung.

You're being accused of this. At that time, CEO Lee Jae-myung and Kim Jin-sung had four phone calls, and if you look at the contents of this call, the prosecution argues that Lee Jae-myung told Kim Jin-sung that he heard Kim Jin-sung's answer that he did not know what was going on inside Seongnam City Hall at the time. On the other hand, CEO Lee Jae-myung said, "This has been a long time, so please answer as you remember and as you know it. It was only for this purpose, but I have never actively taught perjury, and I am pleading not guilty. This perjury teacher, that is, Lee Jae-myung, demanded and taught perjury. Regarding the charges, the prosecution is currently seeking a three-year prison term, so attention is being paid to what kind of sentence will be finally handed out in the first trial.

[Anchor]
Since Lee Jae-myung was sentenced to imprisonment and probation last week, the first trial on perjury teachers next week will be very burdensome for Lee Jae-myung.

[Lim Joo-hye]
That's right. It's a burdensome situation. In this case, the election-related, that is, not a violation of the election law, but a perjury teacher, another charge is applied, so once a sentence of imprisonment or higher is sentenced, the parliamentary seat will be lost in such cases and the right to run for election will be limited. However, considering the sentencing factors, the basic sentencing criteria allow sentences of six months to one and a half years, but the prosecution has demanded three years in prison, which can be considered the maximum sentence under the sentencing criteria. First of all, what we have identified as a weighting factor was, as a result, the perjury, that is, according to the prosecution, the attempt was made to undermine the judiciary in 2022 because of Kim Jin-sung's perjury. The prosecution has now requested a three-year prison term because there are no factors that can be reduced by emphasizing such areas, such as aggravating factors, poor quality of crime, and only aggravating factors.

In the case of the prosecution's sentence, the prosecution's position is that the court does not necessarily belong to it. It can be evaluated like this, but looking at the previous situation, the prosecution demanded a fine of 3 million won in the case of Kim Hye-kyung's sentence, and the actual sentence was 1.5 million won. And given that half of the prosecution's sentences were suspended in the previous trial, including last Friday's election law violation, about half of the prosecution's sentences were sentenced. Considering this trend, the prosecution's sentence can also have a very important meaning.

[Anchor]
In this way, the prosecution has demanded a three-year prison term, but CEO Lee Jae-myung insisted on his innocence and just asked him to tell me what he remembered, right?

[Lim Joo-hye]
That's right. Representative Lee Jae-myung is pleading not guilty. The prosecution did not prosecute the entire transcript, but only extracted and prosecuted parts that were unfavorable to representative Lee Jae-myung. The interpretation of the phone call itself with Kim Jin-sung is also different. So it was simply the intention to make a statement as you remember, but he refutes that it was not the intention to make a statement in a way that was favorable to him or to testify. In addition, CEO Lee Jae-myung is actually expressing his position that he was not acquitted because of Kim Jin-sung's statement in the trial, so he is only asking you to tell him as he is. Therefore, CEO Lee Jae-myung is in a situation where he completely denies the allegation and can be acquitted of the perjury teacher trial.

[Anchor]
It may be a clue to how the court is looking at the issue, but in September last year, the court dismissed the arrest warrant for representative Lee Jae-myung in connection with the case. However, the charges appear to have been cleared. Can you interpret it as a guilty intent to look at it like this? How do I look at it?

[Lim Joo-hye]
That's right. The actual examination of the arrest warrant for CEO Lee Jae-myung in September last year, so the arrest warrant was rejected as a result. However, in clarifying the reason for the dismissal, there are four major charges that representative Lee Jae-myung was facing, and among them, the charges of perjury, which are scheduled to be sentenced on the 25th, seemed to have been proven to some extent by the court at the time of the actual examination of the arrest warrant, but there was an expression like this. Therefore, at least the perjury teacher said that the criminal charges were clarified to some extent only with the evidence secured so far in the actual examination of the arrest warrant at the time, so if so, isn't there a very high probability of a conviction?

However, the issue is whether the actual examination of the arrest warrant needs to be arrested and whether there is a concern of escape or destruction of evidence. In the case of this trial and the first trial, it deals with whether the perjury teacher charge is admitted as a guilty purpose, so it can be seen that the decision is different for now.
However, as I mentioned earlier, it is possible to predict that representative Lee Jae-myung will be able to achieve the results he wants for the first trial only when all-out defense is made, as such evidence submitted at the actual examination of the arrest warrant has proven to some extent.

[Anchor]
First of all, the observation that the conviction will be concluded next Monday seems to be dominant, and more attention is paid to the sentence, but Kim Jin-sung, who was Seongnam Mayor's secretary of execution, admitted the charges. Wouldn't this also be a big variable?

[Lim Joo-hye]
That's right, I think there's something like that. Kim Jin-sung's side has now admitted to perjury charges and is being prosecuted and tried, but CEO Lee Jae-myung argues that Kim Jin-sung's perjury recognition is also due to excessive prosecution and pressure from the prosecution, so it can be different. Kim Jin-sung's perjury, whether this is actually perjury, or whether this perjury is caused by Lee Jae-myung's teacher, can be another level of the problem, so in this regard, Lee Jae-myung is not teaching perjury himself, and he is also making this argument, so it is necessary to look at the conclusion until the end.

[Anchor]
The Democratic Party of Korea was also very shocked by the results of the first trial of violation of the Public Official Election Act, which will be held on the 25th, and many predict that it will be a significant variable in Lee Jae-myung's future political activities.

[Lim Joo-hye]
That's right. While a total of four trials are underway, one trial related to the election law has been suspended from prison. And now, the sentence for the perjury teacher is scheduled soon, so a lot of eyes and ears are focused on the judicial risk and the judgment. Of course, this first trial sentence, which is coming out now, is only the first trial. In this case, it is the same with the previous trial, but the prosecution and representative Lee Jae-myung's appeal. In the end, it seems very likely that the Supreme Court will fight to the end. Therefore, it is clear that the trial is not over until the end, but it is difficult to say that the results of the first trial will be overturned unconditionally by going to the Supreme Court. Considering the various situations in which a higher sentence could finally be sentenced, the prevailing opinion is that the results of the first trial could have a profound impact on future trials because both sides have argued over these issues.

[Anchor]
The live broadcast of the sentence last Friday was canceled. The live broadcast of the sentencing next Monday will come to a conclusion soon.

[Lim Joo-hye]
The trial is scheduled to take place next Monday, the 25th, so considering the fact that the weekend is right behind it, the conclusion on the live broadcast is expected to be made soon within this week at the latest, and within the week. In principle, only major rulings in the Supreme Court can be broadcast live, and we have previously watched trials live in the cases of former presidents. In this case, although it is the first trial, live broadcasting has been applied for in that it is a high-profile case and has a great impact on the people. As live broadcasting has not been recognized in the previous violation of the Public Official Election Act, it seems highly likely that live broadcasting will not be recognized in this case. However, considering the seriousness of this trial, the possibility of live broadcasting being recognized is also open.

[Anchor]
To summarize, there are four cases in which representative Lee Jae-myung has been indicted. Last week, there was a first trial sentence on the Public Official Election Act. The first trial is scheduled for the 25th of next week regarding perjury teachers. What are the other two trials related to?

[Lim Joo-hye]
As mentioned earlier, a total of four trials are underway, and in the case of violation of the Public Official Election Act, the first trial has now been sentenced. The future perjury teacher trial will be sentenced to the first trial on November 25. There are remaining trials, which we often talk about, such as Daejang-dong, Baekhyun-dong suspicions, that is, whether representative Lee Jae-myung's breach of trust, or third-party bribery, are now in question, and this trial is in progress for a long time. However, since the allegations are so vast, there are so many witnesses, and there are so many trial materials, this prediction that it will still take a long time to be sentenced in the first trial is dominant. Suspicions related to the remittance to North Korea are also in the process of preparing for a trial, as representative Lee Jae-myung's violation of the Foreign Exchange Transaction Act and third-party bribery are now a problem. Therefore, in the case of these two trials, it may still take a considerable amount of time for the first trial to be sentenced.

[Anchor]
First of all, for CEO Lee Jae-myung, it's a mountain-to-mountain situation, so we'll have to wait and see how the sentence will come out next Monday. Let's move on to the next topic that we prepared. Let's watch the related video first.

[Anchor]
You may all remember the sad incident in which a 4-year-old child died after being abused at a taekwondo center. The CCTV video, which was deleted in a hurry by the Taekwondo director at the time, was recently restored. Not only on the day of his death, but also before that, he was found to have abused his child at least 140 times?

[Lim Joo-hye]
It's devastating. As a mother raising a child her age, I am deeply saddened by the feelings that her parents and the victim's bereaved family must have made public the CCTV footage. You've just watched the video together, but I think it's hard to look directly at it. It seems that it is not enough to say that this video of putting a young child upside down is really terrible, but additional CCTV footage has been released. That incident happened last July. An additional two-month period for CCTV footage to be restored, that is, two months from May to July, was secured through forensics. It is said that there were scenes of abusing the child at least 140 times. There can be many ways of abuse, and it's terrible when you look at the video you're watching, even putting the child upside down on the mat and hanging on to the mat, and it even seems like he's imitating it.

I don't want to guess what this means or what it means, and I just feel really terrible, but this is a video that the director had deleted CCTV. Then, you can only see that you were aware of what problems there would be if this was disclosed. Because it was deleted with intention, I felt that I abused the fact of this abuse with intention, and that I might be able to infer it sufficiently.

[Anchor]
So, it is said that more than 140 times were seen within the range of recovery, but if we had recovered more in the future, I think it would be a situation where more crime can be confirmed, but the video on the day of the incident is really terrible. I saw this 4-year-old child struggling to save me like this on that video, but the director Lee's abuse actually lasted for more than 20 minutes, even though it would be difficult to endure for 5 minutes.

[Lim Joo-hye]
And as you can see, there were other enemas. The mental shock of other children attending this school must have been too great because other young friends were with them. If you look at this case, at around 7:20 p.m., the Taekwondo director put the victim upside down on a rolled-up mat. However, he was taken to the hospital 27 minutes after he was found in a coma. The period lasted 27 minutes of abuse, and even a healthy adult is trapped on a mat while hanging upside down. Whether a person who works out for 27 minutes could not know, or whether he operated a large-scale sports facility where so many students attend without that level of medical knowledge or opinion. I really don't understand. The police and the prosecution are also pointing out this part with high intensity. It is very sad to see how miserable the bereaved families of the victims will feel after watching the CCTV footage on the day of this incident.

[Anchor]
It really hurts the more I see it. Why on earth would he do this to a young child he teaches? I'm angry. But when I heard the explanation from the Taekwondo director, it was amazing. I just did it as a joke, you keep saying this, right?

[Lim Joo-hye]
It's a joke. If there is no intention of abuse to harm the child, it is just a joke that the children were pretty in the process of teaching the child. But I don't think I'm aware of what it means for a grown-up to play pranks on a 4-year-old child. This wasn't the concept of playing with children. I don't think anyone would accept a child's behavior that can cause this much physical pain as a joke. It is a pity that this explanation rather tears the hearts of the bereaved families. Therefore, the bereaved family strongly opposed the claim that it was such a joke, and the investigative agency was aware that it could not be seen as a joke, that there was a clear intention of abuse, and that the child could die if doing so. He is charged with child abuse and murder because he thought there was intention of killing.

[Anchor]
I think it's a scene that can't be seen as a joke. The first trial is currently underway, but is it possible to submit additional restored CCTV footage to the court as evidence?

[Lim Joo-hye]
First of all, it was revealed that they are now discussing with the prosecution how to deliver it as evidence to the first trial court. If this CCTV video reveals additional circumstances of abuse, it is confirmed that the part must be prosecuted to fight the crime. Therefore, the trial continues on this charge, and other directors and other victims can come out enough, so we are conducting a full investigation of all the students who attended this school. If there are other victims, that part can be contested through additional prosecution.

[Anchor]
According to the police, additional victims were also confirmed, but there was another case of confinement on the mat just like a 4-year-old child who died.

[Lim Joo-hye]
That's right. Then it can be said that there was habitual abuse. Of course, he played with children in a very active way, and he could defend himself in this way, but the act of rolling it on a mat itself can only be seen as an act of abuse that adults should never do. Therefore, it seems that it will be difficult to get out of the suspicion by establishing such a defense logic. There are certain allegations already confirmed, and I want to pay attention to the fact that you tried to erase this CCTV video on your own right after such a big accident means that you are aware of something that will be problematic right now. That's why the prosecution seems to believe that this is a very important evidence that this video was deleted through the forensic video to prove that this part was deliberate in abuse and that it was intentional in murder.

[Anchor]
It seems certain that Director Lee's actions are the most to be blamed, and there must have been other Taekwondo teachers who were with him at the time of the crime. What are the measures taken against this offender?

[Lim Joo-hye]
I think there should be one. First of all, it's a pity that there were others. It is also a pity that even one person has not been able to actively raise objections to this and inform them that this could constitute child abuse. If there have been these actions before, there must have been witnesses, but the aspect of not preventing them in advance is very painful. In that case, if the aspect of participation in child abuse is confirmed, additional punishment can be made for child abuse, and at least if such child abuse has been neglected and neglected, I think we can hold this part responsible for aiding and abetting.

[Anchor]
The 4-year-old sadly passed away after 11 days of life-sustaining treatment. In the last trial, the director said that the child's death was due to the suspension of life-sustaining treatment, and that the responsibility was passed on to the child's parents. How can you be so brazen?

[Lim Joo-hye]
Such a story is being told, and I think it came out during the trial process and during the investigation process. The charge now being applied is child abuse murder. So a very high sentence is scheduled for more than seven years in prison, and the sentence is higher than that of ordinary murder. So a very serious type can be applied. Perhaps to avoid this, he claims that he was not abusive, but even if the act of abuse is admitted, there is no causal relationship to at least causing death, so he seems to be making this argument to deny this aspect. In fact, the victim seems to be making this claim because he finally died after life-sustaining treatment about 10 days later, which is why he was not a child abuse murder, but a child abuse injury.

[Anchor]
You're saying it's not murder?

[Lim Joo-hye]
That's right. In order to claim that part, he died because of that part of life-sustaining treatment after life-sustaining treatment, not because of his actions. You seem to be making this argument. I think this is also a sad story that hurts the victim's bereaved family twice. Even if you go to trial on this part, the probability of being recognized is unlikely to be low. The cause of death has already been revealed. Since the suffocation-related part was found to be a direct cause of death by this mat, I think making such a claim is unlikely to lower the sentence or change the law applied.

[Anchor]
I think it's a ridiculous logic. I don't think it would have been easy for her parents to release this video, but I don't think she wanted it to happen again, right?

[Lim Joo-hye]
That's right. I think all people in our country feel the same way. It should be prevented from happening again. Many children go to Taekwondo academies, daycare centers, and kindergartens. Unfortunately, however, 99.9% of teachers who run these academies and daycare centers take care of their children with a really good heart. I'm also sad that their efforts seem to be disparaged by these events. The victim's bereaved family also said they released the CCTV to properly investigate the allegations and punish them severely this time in hopes that the children will no longer be sacrificed so sadly. I think proper trials and punishments should be made so that the bereaved families' hearts are not in vain.

[Anchor]
There must be many people who think of my child while watching this incident, but the director, I really need to get proper punishment. Let's move on to the last topic we prepared. Let's watch the related video first.

Now, some schools, including Dongduk Women's University, are experiencing a lot of conflict over the admission of male students. Shall we first summarize the positions of Dongduk Women's University and students?

[Lim Joo-hye]
This is a really worrisome situation because it is spreading to violent acts. In this case, Dongduk Women's University will come up with measures for the future, so to find ways to run the school better in the future, and the transition to co-educational at this meeting was suggested as an idea. It was triggered by the story that these parts would be specifically pursued later. The students of Dongduk Women's University immediately expressed their intention to protest, and they claim that the general wanted to come forward and talk with the university's executives, including the president, but this part was also rejected.

At the same time, the school is in a real whirlwind as the university is unilaterally pushing for the transition of Dongduk Women's University to co-educational without exchanging opinions or suggesting such matters in advance, ignoring the students' intentions at all. We're also working on a campaign to take off all the university-tailored clothes we commonly call university jumpers and return them now, and we're also working on a campaign to return the diploma by placing it on the floor. And it's a very unfortunate situation that every building is now scribbled or closed down, so the class itself cannot be done. In this process, physical contact and friction between students and faculty members are occurring.

[Anchor]
The school claims that the amount of damage to the university is up to 5.4 billion won because of such situations on the school's buildings and floors. How is 5.4 billion won counted?

[Lim Joo-hye]
However, Dongduk Women's University announced that this 5.4 billion won could range from 2.4 billion won to 5.4 billion won.

[Anchor]
The range is too wide.

[Lim Joo-hye]
That's right. The difference is close to 3 billion won. So, based on various damaged items, the damaged part of the locker or the cost of repairing these damaged facilities seems to have been set in this respect, but of course, the students are claiming whether the calculation of such damage, which is a difference of 3 billion won, is reliable. On the other hand, the university will seek compensation for damages in these areas, rather than this position, it is an aspect that tells us that there are major damages and that they are suffering physical and financial damage. The university also says that the issue of converting coeducational has not been decided so far, but the student's position is not. In the process of this becoming a reality to some extent, complaints about school administration, which has unilaterally notified students without participating in the decision-making process at all, and has only worked on other places without investing in education, have also exploded through this incident. This is the situation we are seeing now.

[Anchor]
Dongduk Women's University student strongly opposes the school's claim. Let's hear your voice.

You've heard of the student's position, but if the school makes a decision, would it be a matter of legal conditions?

[Lim Joo-hye]
In the end, they are in a position to claim damages. The university delivered to the university that it would seek compensation for damages, such as a damage confirmation letter, which is equivalent to 330 million won, to the general school. It is also saying that it is possible to claim compensation for damage to certain objects, which can be interpreted to this effect. Of course, if it's possible to specify who broke this item, it's not legally impossible to claim damages from the student, but if so, it's actually only fueling the conflict. In fact, I think that it would be almost impossible to resolve the conflict if the university identified individual students or the general controlled this part from behind. The general should be responsible for this.

[Anchor]
There seems to be a lot of fuss about the Dongduk Women's University incident, but there was also a notice of the stabbing posted, and a man in his 20s broke into it without permission?

[Lim Joo-hye]
That's right. There are various stories about this, but it is very worrisome because it is now spreading to gender conflict. There was also an article that predicted a stabbing. In fact, a man in his 20s said he was just curious about what was going on in the school, and he broke into the school without permission and got arrested after scuffling with security guards. The police will also strictly investigate and deal with these situations. As it says that it will block any further violence or other victims, this behavior should be avoided.

[Anchor]
In the midst of this, it is said that the nearby Sungshin Women's University student council also held a demonstration, but what problem is being raised here?

[Lim Joo-hye]
Sungshin Women's University is selecting male students for the international department, and since they have already been selected, students are strongly opposed to this story, saying that this is also the first attempt to transform coeducational science. Sungshin Women's University says that this is just a selection of foreign male students out of quota for international departments, not a transition to co-educational science, but this is also an attempt to transform engineering in harmony with other schools. There is another movement of opposition, and protests are intensifying in this regard.

[Anchor]
Some are questioning whether the protest is justified, and it is leading to gender conflict and violence, so where can we find a clue to the solution?

[Lim Joo-hye]
It's very unfortunate that this situation is happening. In the end, the important part is how much students and universities exchange opinions and discuss in advance. These parts will be important. First of all, students are also constantly taking issue with the unilateral university's administrative processing system and meetings that do not reflect students' intentions at all, so it seems essential to listen to students' opinions and check the university's positions with each other, but skipping the conversation process now seems to have led to such extreme confrontation. If this really goes to the legal battle, it will be more difficult to solve. That's why I think that a dialogue where both sides can fully talk to each other should precede any litigation.

[Anchor]
It is very unfortunate that such conflicts and conflicts will occur on campuses where dreams are to be raised, but as you said, I look forward to the resolution as soon as possible. So far, we've been with lawyer Lim Joo-hye. Thank you.