[Issue Plus] Emergency martial law...The 6th Party of Korea submits the impeachment bill to the National Assembly.

■ Hosted by: Lee Yeo-jin, anchor Jang Won-seok
■ Starring: Lee Chang-geun, chairman of the Party's cooperation committee, and Choi Jin, chairman of the Presidential Leadership Research Institute

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN News Special] when quoting.


[Anchor]
The opposition party decided to report the presidential impeachment bill to the plenary session at around midnight today, and the aftermath of martial law seems to be entering a new phase. Let's take a look at the contents related to Choi Jin, head of the Presidential Leadership Institute. You didn't sleep well last night, did you?

[Choi Jin]
Yes, reporters and acquaintances of the general public called me so much that I stayed up all day.

[Anchor]
Who would have imagined the scene of an armored vehicle appearing in downtown Seoul and a soldier riding a helicopter into the National Assembly, breaking a window and entering in 2024?

[Choi Jin]
I felt like I was dreaming, too, and I felt like I was watching a movie from 45 years ago. The Korean people are quite disappointed and angry, but the foreign media chose a very stimulating title. What did the president of Yoon Suk Yeol try to get now? This is the title of CNN. And the title of the New York Times is, "Did you gamble politically recklessly?" We are so sorry that these embarrassing titles continue to appear in the world's foreign media every day. It hurts a lot because I think I hear the sound of the Korean national credibility dripping every moment.

[Anchor]
How did you see the president's perception when the constitution says that you can recognize an emergency and declare martial law?

[Choi Jin]
It's called an emergency. Didn't we talk about the wartime incident of Article 77 (1) of the Constitution all day long today? The key is the military coming forward. The minister or the administration cannot be called civilians, so they decided that the military, armed and tanked troops had to come forward. That's how the president judged it. However, few people or politicians now judge that the situation cannot be sorted out unless the military comes forward. So even if the difference between the president's perception and the perception of the average person is large, I think it's too big.

[Anchor]
Earlier, the foreign media said a provocative title and asked what you were aiming for, what do you think you were aiming for?

[Choi Jin]
First of all, I don't think martial law will succeed. I wouldn't have judged that it would be successful. The reason why he recklessly provoked it like a foreign media title, knowing that he would fail, is that in the past, if the situation is too difficult at home or abroad, the way to do it if the president is in a dead end is to reverse the situation. If you turn the table upside down, the people's attention will be focused on another place. Everything else, including Kim Gun-hee's case, is pushed back. That's why it's not a flipping game. If I have to force myself to say another thing, isn't it to unite a small number of hard-line conservatives who think, "It's too bad, we need to help," and that they will lose the government? I'm telling you a rather absurd analysis that if the rigid supporters are gathered, the minimum approval rating will still be better than now, so that it could rise to the mid-20% range. Otherwise, it's a part that can't be explained.

[Anchor]
Lee Chang-geun, chairman of the party's cooperation committee in Hanam-si, Gyeonggi-do, has also come to the studio. Please come in. If I ask you a similar question now, please rate how you see the series of situations from last night to now.

[Changgeun Lee]
Even within our party, the parliamentary assembly has not yet been terminated, but it was a very noisy and unreasonable emergency martial law. These opinions dominate. So the party leadership is now in Yongsan to find out exactly what the president's intentions are. And a medical gun is scheduled for 10 p.m. tonight. So the public must have been very surprised by the series of events, but I don't think it will stabilize overnight anyway. Because don't you keep going to legal arguments after that? So, I think that it has caused confusion to the people due to a very excessive emergency martial law situation.

[Anchor]
It's an atmosphere that the opposition party and the ruling party didn't know at all, right?

[Changgeun Lee]
That's right. I didn't expect that at all. This morning, the chairmen of the outside committee also demanded the president leave the party in the name of some outside committee chairmen, and if that doesn't work, the leadership of the party came forward and even filed a complaint with the ethics committee to take action against the president.

[Anchor]
A short while ago, such breaking news broke that Prime Minister Han Deok-soo, People's Power Party Chairman Han Dong-hoon, and floor leader Choo Kyung-ho are likely to gather in the presidential office to discuss countermeasures with President Yoon. What do you expect will come and go?

[Changgeun Lee]
In fact, the current countermeasures have already been mentioned, but the president's apology, the fact-finding investigation, and the censure of the people who are responsible for the situation, and representative Han Dong-hoon even mentioned the resignation of the cabinet. However, it is questionable whether the president's apology is convincing and acceptable to the public. In that sense, what are the appropriate measures to take? As I said earlier, there should be more clear measures in relation to the president and the party, such as the president's defection and the party's taking responsibility for the president's situation and apologizing to the people.

[Choi Jin]
The president and the ruling party's leader are the first to put their heads together in order to come up with a solution and find a way. Since there are also members of the party, close communication and consultation between the party and the government should be made. But as you know, when the president declared martial law, it was the ruling party leader who opposed it first and rebelled. Isn't it so? Since he said he would block it with the people just because it is unconstitutional and illegal, I wonder what kind of answer can come out while excluding the party leader and the party leadership. You pointed it out just now.In the case of an apology, a reform, or a party personnel appointment, public sentiment must come up with a solution that is at least three times more intense than in the past. In other words, I think it's a situation where there's no answer.

[Anchor] What are some
high-intensity solutions?

[Choi Jin]
Representatively, it's human selection. Shouldn't all the Blue House chiefs change? If there is a situation in which the cabinet members have to resign, they should appoint a new minister, but if there is an unconventional personnel appointment or personnel appointment that is so impressive that the people can say it is a personnel coup, public sentiment will be softened, but I am honestly skeptical whether they will be able to do so.

[Anchor]
Aren't our people traumatized by the declaration of martial law? In this situation, there doesn't seem to be any gain from declaring this. What do you think made President Yoon declare martial law so extreme?

[Changgeun Lee]
The reason why President Yoon is holding it on the surface is because of the budget issue at the National Assembly, the impeachment of the opposition's continued ministers, and the impeachment of prosecutors. In fact, despite this, the declaration of martial law is difficult for all citizens to understand. And the decree, as shown in the decree, also contains information about doctors and their intentions. In that sense, he only did it to break down his political crisis. And would this have succeeded in martial law? If the majority of the National Assembly agrees, this will be lifted. In view of that, it is necessary to clarify the real intention of what the president did for, but the current situation has nothing to gain, and it is hard for the people to understand, and it has to be seen as a kind of trick to break down their own political crisis.

[Choi Jin]
In a way, isn't it even more difficult for the Democratic Party or the general public to understand when someone who is involved in the power of the people says that? And when martial law is originally declared, the people know first in the past. At this point, you feel that you may declare martial law, and words like that spread. However, if you didn't know this at all, isn't it a proof that you're not in a situation to declare martial law at all? Nevertheless, if the president declares martial law, the Minister of Justice, the Minister of Defense, and the Minister of Public Administration and Security should come out and hold a press conference in front of the public and explain it. Why are you doing it right now? However, since the president threw it alone without any explanation, the aftermath has been so strong so far and there is no answer.

[Anchor]
Many members of the State Council, including Prime Minister Han Deok-soo, reportedly opposed the martial law at a cabinet meeting, but the president is now known to have a strong will. Prime Minister Han Deok-soo, Representative Han, Floor Leader Choo Kyung-ho, and President Yoon Suk Yeol will be talking. You explained earlier about apologies and resignation of the general cabinet as solutions. If there was a really stronger solution, what would you say?

[Changgeun Lee]
It may be my personal opinion, but isn't the part that came out for a long time actually the reorganization of the power structure? And now, even if President Yoon declared martial law to break down the political situation, isn't this actually a failure? And even if the Cabinet resigns altogether, the question is whether the party will be able to overcome this crisis at the moment, which I think is a very serious crisis. If so, the people will probably understand if the discussion continues on the part of the power restructuring that the opposition party also participated in, and the people will understand even if the president spends the rest of his term in office and joins the Cabinet through new appointments. Otherwise, I think many people will also feel such a crisis over the presidential system, contradictions over the presidential system, and such parts.

[Choi Jin]
Since the public is embarrassed because it burst so suddenly, I think there will be too many doubts from the public's point of view even if the president comes up with follow-up measures. So, before taking action, we will have to find out the truth first. Who made the suggestion and why did Minister Kim Yong-hyun actually make the suggestion, and didn't the military actually join the National Assembly's main office? Then, I think the people can understand only when they first reveal to the public who and how the four so-called military officers who participated in the military at that time were involved and where.

[Anchor]
It's hard to understand, but the emergency decree does not meet the constitutional requirements. There are comments like this. What do you think of this part?

[Changgeun Lee]
There are already opinions within the prosecution that the president's declaration of emergency martial law could constitute an abuse of authority. To that extent, martial law is a state of war, an incident, or a similar national emergency, and the anti-state forces that the president talked about have been controversial for a long time. And the opposition's impeachment and the passage of the reduction budget are actually things that need to be solved with politics. Nevertheless, it is debatable whether the president met those requirements set by martial law and by the Constitution because he enforced it. And in the future, the prosecution is likely to continue to file a follow-up complaint with the prosecution already guilty of abuse of authority on the internal bulletin board. Then maybe there's a fierce legal debate on this part.

[Anchor]
How do you evaluate the unconstitutionality of the decree, the constitution, and the president's declaration of martial law?

[Choi Jin]
There seems to be a growing consensus that it is unconstitutional and illegal right now, and the Democratic Party and the opposition party strongly insist on illegality right now, right? That's why it's gaining momentum by accusing the president of rebellion right now. Not only the opposition party but also the ruling party is joining the so-called Han Dong-hoon and Chin-yoon. The problem in the future is whether or not you are guilty of rebellion. According to the Constitution, the crime of rebellion is, for example, disastrous for the part of the country. It means that he did not properly protect the country and abandoned his work and duties. The second is the National Constitution. It's like the president did it to overthrow the state rather than properly obey the constitution, and the president encouraged the riot one last time. Since the opposition party is pushing for a civil war clause that the president shook the constitution itself and the foundation of the country, and some of the ruling party are joining it, this is not just a matter of illegality, but a very serious controversy over unconstitutionality.

[Anchor]
Even if martial law is declared, isn't it illegal to control the National Assembly?

[Changgeun Lee]
Isn't that what it says in the decree? At the same time as martial law is declared, the National Assembly and then local councils will stop all political activities. And although the controversial Commissioner Jo Ji-ho denies it, police forces are deployed to control access, and those parts are actually illegal. So I think I put all political activities from the decree to the National Assembly and local councils, because I had those parts in mind.

[Anchor]
It is confirmed that Defense Minister Kim Yong-hyun made a recommendation to President Yoon Suk Yeol in declaring an emergency martial law. When the allegations were raised only three months ago, he strongly denied them. Let's listen to the related voices.

When I talked about it last September, it was like that, that's right. What kind of era is this? I'm sure you thought a lot about emergency martial law, but I feel very betrayed because the person who said that suggested it now.

[Changgeun Lee]
It's very contradictory, it's contradictory, and isn't there a controversy since Defense Minister Kim Yong-hyun was appointed? And I think the shock that the people will probably be shocked when they suggest the situation they denied. And it's also true that the people were confused. At the same time as martial law was declared, people continued to hoard marts, and of course, it was calmed down in a day, but those parts are also causing the national credibility of the Republic of Korea to fall.
So this controversial part, including the Minister of Defense, should be revealed in detail to the public through a more thorough fact-finding investigation, as you said earlier.

[Anchor]
When Kim Min-seok, the supreme council member of the Democratic Party of Korea, talked about martial law, many critics and political scholars did not consider it that important. And I even made the Seoul Spring TF, and in conclusion, President Yoon Suk Yeol confirmed this.

[Choi Jin]
That's right. At the time, he said that the remarks of Supreme Council member Kim Min-seok were so absurd, and he said that he didn't know anything in this day and age. As a result, we were right, so we didn't have much to say.At the time, Rep. Kim Min-seok expected martial law to be declared due to local war or north wind as the basis for martial law and suspicions. But there's nothing special like now. Since the National Assembly was declared as an anti-state organization and martial law was declared immediately, it is not a declaration of martial law with specific reasons, justifications, or very clear evidence, as Supreme Council member Kim Min-seok said. The president subjectively judged it and declared it subjectively. Anyway, I've been talking about declaring martial law since the beginning of this year, but in the end, lawmaker Kim Min-seok's stock price is going up. Looking at the forecast yesterday and today, he predicted that Yoon Suk Yeol's president is likely to do another martial law again.

[Anchor]
Let's talk again after listening to the recording of the time when Supreme Council member Kim Min-seok first raised suspicions of martial law in August.

[Anchor]
As you said now, you may declare another martial law, so what do you think of this part? Do you think there's a possibility of
?

[Changgeun Lee]
I don't think that's possible. Because isn't the National Assembly more than a majority of the Democratic Party in this situation? And what is guaranteed in our Constitution is that if the National Assembly lifts martial law, the president must follow it unconditionally. I repeat this situation again because it is mandatory to follow, not to follow,
I think that if the people do that, there will really be a backlash from the people at the level of rioting.

[Choi Jin]
I agree with what is reasonable enough, but I can't be sure because so many irrational things have happened in the meantime. And I'm actually nervous that North Korea is rather quiet. I think I and the people will always remain anxious that if I throw a garbage balloon and suddenly do something strange, I will take another action to respond unexpectedly.

[Anchor]
There is a school name that came out when martial law allegations were raised. Chungam High School. Chungam High School is the school where President Yoon Suk Yeol came out, and Minister of Public Administration Lee Sang-min and Minister of National Defense Kim Yong-hyun are all alumni of Chungam High School. I heard that Chungam High School is among the commanders who played a major role in martial law this time, so could you explain about it?

[Choi Jin]
So, first of all, the media and so far revealed that the martial law army is the three members. The first is Defense Minister Kim Yong-hyun's 38th Military Academy. He is from Chungam High School and is an alumnus of the President, but the other three soldiers who mobilized military units this time are Kim Yong-hyun's people, right? First of all, the Chief of the Army Staff is the 46th Military Academy. Isn't there a martial law commander this time? And the commander of the Special Forces Command is the 47th Military Academy, and the commander of the Defense Command is the 48th Military Academy. As you know, when you go to the military, the difference between a rider is very important and the military is strong. The 46, 47, and 48th Army chiefs, martial law commanders, special forces commanders, and defense commanders are all united. The trio are being filmed by the media as the three main players who participated in the military this time under the direction of Defense Minister Kim Yong-hyun and caused a wave of martial law this time. The counterintelligence commander, who was one of Chungam High School's personal connections in the past, is missing here for now. However, the three soldiers and Chungam High School connections were intertwined in any form, and martial law rumors were constantly circulating, and as a result, it was proved that there was a basis.

[Anchor]
Didn't the opposition party decide to report the president's impeachment to the plenary session a little after 12 p.m.? If this happens, how will the subsequent process proceed?

[Changgeun Lee]
It has to go through a parliamentary vote. The National Assembly vote should be approved by two-thirds of the registered members, not by a majority of the registered members. Therefore, even if only about eight members of the People's Power Party leave, the impeachment bill will be passed. After the vote, it must be reviewed by the Constitutional Court. So, the opposition party recommended two people in the wake of the emergency martial law incident at a time when three constitutional judges have been vacant to push for the president's impeachment. Because I recommended it, the president has to appoint it. The opposition party moves quickly. So, the first gateway to the National Assembly is that two-thirds really approve it, so eight or more lawmakers of the People's Power can leave and pass it. If it is approved, if it is passed to the Constitutional Court and two people fill the vacant opposition party's share, it will be eight, and if seven out of eight people attend and more than six people approve, the impeachment will be passed.

[Choi Jin]
I would like to ask you from a different point of view, but you are the chairman of the People's Power Party Cooperation Committee, do you think there will be more than eight people leaving?

[Changgeun Lee]
I can't tell you that. As I said earlier, we have a general meeting all day long today, and we also have a general meeting at 10 p.m. tonight. If we get the results of such discussions that can be supported by the people again and convince the people, we can go to a single group, but otherwise, each lawmaker will have a very different opinion because each lawmaker is a constitutional institution. And as former representative Lee Joon-seok said, isn't it predicted that at least six lawmakers who have communicated with the people will leave? So I think tonight's gun will be a very important crossroads.

[Anchor]
The impeachment bill is supposed to be voted within 72 hours after 24 hours of being reported, so a vote could take place as early as Friday.

[Choi Jin]
That's right. After proposing and voting, don't we finally enter the Constitutional Court? Of course, the motion will be possible because it is a majority, and the vote is two-thirds, so more than four votes have already left, right? If the horse actually leaves the 8th page with only 4 votes, it will be approved, but if you look at the current state, isn't it very likely to be approved? If that happens, wouldn't it be going to the agency system right away? It goes to the acting president system and moves on to the Constitutional Court, but if there are more than 6 people at this time, it is immediately cited, but since all 3 have retired, there are only 6 people, right? But legally, six constitutional judges can determine whether it is cited or dismissed.

However, there is a possibility of continuing to be delayed because there is a political controversy and it is burdensome. Depending on whether it is an impeachment citation or dismissal. Then, if the acting president appoints an additional person, I think the final sentence will be made if there are six, seven, eight, or nine people. In any case, public opinion is not very good right now, so regardless, it seems that President Yoon Suk Yeol is rapidly flowing into a disadvantageous situation.

[Anchor]
To get to the Constitutional Court, you have to pass the National Assembly anyway, and 200 out of 300 people have to approve. The reason for paying attention to that number was that 190 people voted during the resolution to lift the emergency martial law, of which 18 were the power of the people. Among them, neutral lawmakers Kim Jae-sung and Kim Yong-tae are included, and the remaining 16 are classified as close relatives. In fact, some people, such as Daegu Mayor Hong Joon Pyo, pressure Representative Han Dong-hoon from the outside to prevent impeachment. What choice do you think Han Dong-hoon will make?

[Choi Jin]
Isn't CEO Han Dong-hoon actually in the worst state right now? And since the head of the ruling party did not hesitate without hesitation and directly opposed the declaration of martial law by the president, it is highly likely that the close relationship will move together. There are 192 opposition parties now, but only 8 people need to gather, but 4 people have already left, right? Then, if only these four additional people pass, it will be completely approved. If you look at today's atmosphere, it's enough to be passed, and then there could be another really similar situation in the floor.

[Anchor]
The leadership of the People's Power Party seems to be putting more weight on conducting investigations on insurrection crimes than on impeachment. There is also this view, and this is because there is a trauma about the impeachment of former President Park Geun Hye.

[Changgeun Lee]
There is no need to bring up the trauma of former President Park Geun Hye's impeachment. However, as I said earlier, four people have already left, but I think you're talking about the past vote, but impeachment is not that easy within our party because it is directly related to the presidential election. No, it's just that it's settled first. If the crime of rebellion or the crime of abuse of authority mentioned by the prosecution earlier becomes a requirement for impeachment. That is why, rather than such a discussion within, such a measure that the people can understand and persuade the people, as I said. That's the fact-finding and the consequent thorough action. It could be a general resignation of the cabinet, or it could be a discussion on the reorganization of the power structure I mentioned, and it could be the immediate dismissal of Minister Kim Yong-hyun. Various measures should be implemented first. It is not easy to impeach unconditionally.

[Choi Jin]
I agree with what you said, but I think a big deal and negotiation should be made between President Yoon Suk Yeol and Representative Han Dong-hoon before persuading the people. The key point has already been proposed by representative Han Dong-hoon, but whether he will defect from the party, a full-scale reshuffle, and reform. If President Yoon Suk Yeol accepts this part, shouldn't such negotiations take place? In particular, isn't representative Han Dong-hoon openly demanding that President Yoon Suk Yeol leave the party? If this part is not explained, I think CEO Han Dong-hoon or his close circle will be aggressive. I think leaving the party is an important problem-solving point.

[Anchor]
The leadership and lawmakers of the People's Power gathered in the morning to discuss various things, and three things are known to have discussed the resignation of the cabinet, the dismissal of the defense minister, and the demand for the president's defection. No. 1 and No. 2 seem to agree with both close and pro-Yoon-gye, but they seem to disagree on the demand for defection No. 3.

[Changgeun Lee]
Regarding the request for defection, it is known that only about 30% approved of the request for defection and about 70% disapproved as a result of the general meeting of lawmakers. However, a medical gun is scheduled for 10 p.m. tonight. Defection is actually a political act in the past, but the signal to the people is very large. However, even if our party made a request, but the president does not leave the party, we have an internal device. There is also a system called the Ethics Committee. So there's also a measure called expulsion.

Therefore, such discussions should continue, but as representative Han Dong-hoon and some senior officials said, why do they call for defection? In the end, the party should go toward the people now, the people's livelihood, but when the president does this completely out of touch with the people's view, it is the party that is responsible for it. That's why we see the symbolic move as defection, even if it's for the party to step up and take care of these people's livelihoods and to reveal that the president admits wrongdoing. However, even if it doesn't work, it's not that we don't do it, but we have a device inside our party. It could open an ethics committee. So I think you should keep an eye on it.

[Choi Jin]
There is an internal device, and first, CEO Han Dong-hoon openly demanded to leave the party. However, in the past, there has never been a case in which the party leader or inside demanded a defection and did not leave the party. after democratization in '87. Only President Park Lee Myung Bak and President Park Moon Jae In did not receive a request for defection, and the rest of the presidents, including Kim Young-sam, Kim Kim Dae Jung, Kim Roh Moo Hyun, and Kim Park Geun Hye, left the party. So this time, the defections come quickly, so it can be burdensome. Since the controversy over martial law or martial law has erupted anyway, it is necessary to quickly leave the party or resign from the cabinet in order to settle it as soon as possible. The key to dealing with the crisis is timing, speed. If we miss it like this, wouldn't we go today or tomorrow? Then, the situation does not subside, but it continues to spread, so the difficult situation continues to spread. The president didn't apologize at all, did he? Only Minister Kim Yong-hyun apologized a little while ago, and the rest of the president has no apology or solution, so questions, anger, and curiosity are growing like a snowball.

[Anchor]
The fact that representative Han Dong-hoon and his close friends demanded the president to leave the party means that they can't go together in the future?

[Choi Jin]
I think that's actually the case. I thought it had a point when I saw that they had already defected from the party before that and let's play their own roles separately. Now, it's the so-called private room last time. Since the emotional goal at the meeting in Yongsan, I believe that they have been using separate rooms, and due to this martial law incident, they are completely separated from each other by buying a house. Separation is not usually a big deal, but I think it has entered a state of separation of quite angry anger.

[Anchor]
Earlier, I told you about the trauma of former President Park Geun Hye's impeachment because the leadership of the People's Power Party is cautious about impeachment, but some have this analysis. If President Yoon is impeached and holds an early presidential election, wouldn't it be advantageous for Democratic Party Chairman Lee Jae-myung? There's also this perspective.

[Changgeun Lee]
In fact, physically, I told you that the Constitutional Judge, but in fact, more than 7 people must attend and 6 people must approve, so that the final impeachment will not be made, right? Then, if the constitutional judge is recommended by the opposition party but takes time to be appointed, in fact, it can be pending for a considerable period of time even after the impeachment passes the National Assembly. Now, in the case of representative Lee Jae-myung, he was sentenced to prison in the election law in the first trial, and other trial cases are scheduled one after another. In the process, representative Lee Jae-myung's second trial sentence and the third trial sentence should be resolved within the next six months just by looking at the election law. Those six months and the time the Constitutional Court opens the impeachment hearings could actually be a match. That means that the Constitutional Court's impeachment hearing may not be held until the final sentence of Representative Lee Jae-myung. Therefore, even if the presidential election is held early, it will be after six months for a considerable period of time. And at that time, representative Lee Jae-myung cannot come out if he is finally sentenced in the election law. That's why you have to look at that, too. However, the reason for being cautious about impeachment is that the current politics is in crisis and the economy of the people is difficult, but the cabinet has resigned, but if the appointment is not made quickly, the policy will be paralyzed.

Foreign credibility will fall. That's why if you look at that, there is a deeper concern about whether impeachment would be desirable if it happened again in the constitutional history of the Republic of Korea. Therefore, if the opposition party wants to overcome this crisis quickly through the reorganization of the power structure or something like this, it is not right to focus a little more on the fact-finding and punishment of those responsible.

[Anchor]
Supreme Council member Kim Min-seok once mentioned some numbers at an outdoor rally and said, "Let's finish it within that period." If there is an early presidential election, how likely do you think Chairman Lee Jae-myung is to cover up his judicial risks and seek the presidency?

[Choi Jin]
Rep. Kim Min-seok said, "Let's finish it within six months," but now that kind of situation has come. If that happens, what will happen to Lee Jae-myung if he holds the presidential election? I'm already talking about this. I think that is equally unfortunate. This case of early elections is not a huge second trauma, but a devastating wound to the people and unfortunate nationally, so I think I should speak up and take action quickly for President Yoon Suk Yeol. For example, when you talk about the Constitution, don't put it to a vote before the impeachment vote before you go to the Constitution, it's dangerous. If the impeachment is suspended, the ruling party has already collapsed since then. In order to prevent the collapse of the ruling party, the ruling party, and the conservative camp of the ruling party, President Yoon Suk Yeol should quickly present an unconventional solution to the public before the impeachment parliamentary vote. So for me, 1 hour, 10 minutes is so important, but it's a pity that it goes by like crazy.

[Anchor]
A lot of videos were being talked about online yesterday. Rep. Lee Joon-seok is committing a rebellion against the military and police, saying, "Why does it make sense that a lawmaker cannot enter the National Assembly?" I shouted like this. What kind of punishment will soldiers and police be given?

[Changgeun Lee]
In fact, as I said earlier, I banned all political activities of the National Assembly and local councils because the decree contained it, and the soldiers who were dispatched were dispatched after the special forces and the water radiators, so what could be wrong? I would have been faithful to my orders with my command and command and command. However, the command should take responsibility for making such soldiers act. So, if not only the four soldiers mentioned earlier but also the police conducted a thorough investigation and blocked the passage of citizens, isn't that also controversial? It is right to thoroughly punish the command through a fact-finding investigation into what kind of wrongdoing it had. And the soldiers who acted in that action only served their duties on the order, but they judge that the punishment for those soldiers is too excessive.

[Choi Jin]
Wasn't everyone punished in the past? 12. At 12 or 5.18. No matter how much you have to follow your superior's orders, illegal orders must be firmly rejected, but I personally wonder that there are an estimated 260 soldiers who have entered the martial law declaration at the National Assembly, and they will completely take control of Yeouido. 260 is a ridiculously small number for an emergency. Did you refuse to mobilize the military within the military or something like that? Or maybe the instructions didn't work, the martial law commander's. I think these parts will be revealed a lot in the future. And one more thing, this martial law incident is expressed in many ways. Don't some people describe it as a pro-Japanese coup? Martial law failed, didn't it? I'm emphasizing once again that the president should quickly come up with an unconventional solution beyond his imagination because if it fails in a situation that is tantamount to a pro-Japanese coup. How severe this situation is for our President to feel with his skin. I'm curious.

[Anchor]
Many people are now angry because of the martial law declared for the first time since democratization. What do you think?

[Changgeun Lee]
It's natural for citizens to be angry. Today's KOSPI also fell at one point during the day, and the impact on the economy is huge, directly or indirectly. As I said earlier, the same goes for external trustees. First of all, it was only yesterday, but didn't the people experience inconvenience in their lives? I accept that citizens' anger is natural. However, rather than quickly leading to impeachment as the opposition party says, I think the key is for many citizens to stabilize quickly and for the people to return to their daily lives, rather than coming out to the square like that. In order to do so, I hope that the ruling and opposition parties will work together to gather wisdom and make efforts to settle the situation.

[Anchor]
You saw the scene of the Gwanghwamun rally, and it's the beginning. I haven't figured out how big it is and I don't know how long this will last. How do you view it?

[Choi Jin]
If you look closely at the screen, it seems to be a little different from the Democratic Party-led rally. Rather, the scope has expanded. And outside people seem to have joined more, and I think that the rally will last a long time. In addition, as a person who has watched candlelight vigils during the Park Geun Hye administration in the past, what worries me a lot for the Yoon Suk Yeol administration is that middle and high school students, housewives, strollers, and dog carts go out. If you start doing that, it's really out of control, and the whole nation is out, so I hope that the various solutions I just mentioned before come out quickly.

Looking back at the past two and a half years, President Yoon Suk Yeol has been very late in making important decisions, the timing. It's already been more than two months since the prime minister and the cabinet will be replaced in November, hasn't it? It is urgent because it is by the end of the year. In the case of Minister Kim Yong-hyun, for example, I think he should have been dismissed immediately. After demanding his dismissal, all the focus is on the defense minister anyway, but no action has been taken so far. That's why I don't know if they're watching the index of public anger keep rising every moment.

[Anchor]
Those in their 50s and 60s who experienced emergency martial law around the 1980s saw a sharp increase in sales of canned food, ramen, and bottled water at convenience stores last night. I think you were very anxious.

[Changgeun Lee]
Of course. If emergency martial law is declared, they will have such trauma in the past. And not only them, but also young people, don't we have a threat to North Korea because we are still a divided country? I think the people would have thought of all that. But fortunately, it calmed down in a day, so there is no more confusion, but in fact, people's anxiety leads to an immediate hoarding phenomenon. [Choi Jin] I wonder what would have happened if martial law had been successful as President Yoon Suk Yeol wished. Then, as you know, shouldn't there be armed soldiers all over the media?

And all media and assembly associations are restricted, newspapers are censored, and armed soldiers stand everywhere. We can't even say this right now. So you've experienced it, but in the 1970s and 1980s, you showed the cutthroat situation on the screen for a moment yesterday. It's beyond imagination what happened if martial law was successful and if it worked properly. In a way, I think it's very good for President Yoon Suk Yeol that martial law ended in failure.

[Anchor]
I couldn't even access the Naver cafe around 11 o'clock last night. It's the first time I've encountered some errors in the news comment function, and how could it have affected the lives of the people other than this? What if this really succeeded?

[Changgeun Lee]
If you succeed, as you said, if you go to the decree, you will have a situation you don't want to imagine. Because in martial law, soldiers, martial law forces can investigate immediately, arrest immediately, detain them, and there will be a huge change in their daily lives. And as the media said, everything will be censored and controlled. And although doctors are not returning because of the medical strike, there is also a provision that requires all doctors to return. In that case, will the medical service improve? That's another matter. There will be backlash everywhere, and doctors will not return, right? So the confusion is indescribable. So will the people see soldiers armed in their daily lives, whether the biggest change is going around downtown everywhere, and how frightening would that be in itself? And if it is exposed to foreign media as it is, Korea's prestige has been put in the ranks of advanced countries so far, but it falls back into the abyss.

[Anchor]
With a series of situations from the declaration of martial law to the lifting of martial law, Jamryong also began to speak out in various places. Seoul Mayor Oh Se-hoon also made an entrance. Among them, former Governor Kim Kyung-soo stood out. I'm not saying I'm coming home early. How do you view this?

[Choijin]
Senior politicians also ask me questions, such as whether this will lead to a reorganization of the political arena. There seems to be a lot of tendency to ask politicians outside the office if the situation changes completely, regardless of whether the presidential election is held first. In fact, if the situation is not resolved well, the political reorganization that has been heard so much in the media in the past may be pushed back. However, in this situation, Seoul Mayor Oh Se-hoon, Daegu Mayor Hong Joon Pyo, and Incheon Mayor Yoo Jeong-bok are talking a lot, and they should not just criticize Yoon Suk Yeol's martial law through the media, but quickly come up with countermeasures as a key pillar of the ruling party internally.

For example, instead of promoting it to the media under a common name, I strongly urge the president of Yoon Suk Yeol to do this behind closed doors. It is helping President Yoon Suk Yeol to make such a strong pressure proposal to President Yoon Suk Yeol from all walks of life, so don't worry like pro-Yoon-gye. You can do it. People who act as guards and shields are much more likely to drop the president of Yoon Suk Yeol into the abyss. Now is the time for the next presidential candidates or senior members of the party to play a proper, positive, productive role. Paradoxically, in a way, it may be a good opportunity to demonstrate leadership.

[Anchor]
Supreme Council member Kim Min-seok, who first raised suspicions about attempting martial law, proposed a revision to the martial law law on September 20 when the government declared martial law, asking for the consent of the National Assembly. What do you think about this? Do you think it should be passed?

[Changgeun Lee]
That is another matter. If Representative Kim Min-seok really announced the law in anticipation of martial law coming, he would be very visionary. However, I think that part will have to go through various discussions at the National Assembly. This is because the current National Assembly has respected legislative power through the separation of powers, but the current National Assembly can be seen as an abnormal National Assembly.
Because of the people's votes, of course, the opposition's dominance in legislation or the opposition's dominance in the budget is too strong.
That's why there's no choice but to question whether it's going to be an open-minded discussion for the country.
So the revision of martial law should be careful. However, since there is still a mechanism in the Constitution, martial law must be lifted immediately if the National Assembly agrees with more than a half. But this martial law should not be repeated. That's why I think the discussion of the bill should also be careful with an open mind, and it should not be passed.

[Anchor]
There seems to be no disagreement that the opposition party, including the Democratic Party, will be empowered now. The Democratic Party will press the government harder in the future, right?

[Choi Jin]
Chairman Lee Jae-myung of the Democratic Party should know that. In a way, the Yoon Suk Yeol president and the government's ruling party are at their worst, and I think this is a chance for us to completely destroy the other party, and if we go a hard-line one-sided way, we will never see any reflective profits. So, in particular, the middle class looks at how Chairman Lee Jae-myung and the Democratic Party deal with the situation with cool-headedness. If I do a lot of polls at Cheong Wa Dae in the past, when one party is in a difficult, difficult, and very crisis situation, if a group of the other party attacks, the approval rating drops equally.

So, it's better to stay on the sidelines when the opponent is in trouble. If you hit others together when they hit you, you should be careful because it can lead to a backlash such as "Did you do well?" As the people look at this situation, they think that a large part of the cause was provided by the Democratic Party. President Yoon Suk Yeol did not cooperate too much, but for two and a half years, wasn't it even a hard-line situation when it came to the Democratic Party? Have you ever negotiated and stepped back? In that sense, I think the Democratic Party also needs to take this opportunity to look back considerably.

[Anchor]
In fact, even the key presidential staff didn't know until this declaration, and the U.S. also said that they didn't receive prior notice, so could this cause diplomatic problems?

[Changgeun Lee]
I'm not going to go to diplomatic matters. However, from the perspective of the United States, there is no reason to know that, and the Republic of Korea is a sovereign country, but the aides didn't know, and although they went through the Cabinet meeting, the Cabinet meeting was almost one-way, right? That's definitely a problem. Because if you're going to do that, there's no reason for the heads of the presidential office or other secretaries to exist. I didn't know while doing actions that affect such important people and foreign trust. The president decided unilaterally. And we held a Cabinet meeting because it was a kind of procedure to declare emergency martial law, and we pushed for it no matter how much we opposed it, right? So I think those parts are more of a problem.

[Anchor]
At this point, I think President Yoon or the pro-Yoon world should also come out, but there is no news yet. When do you think this announcement will come out?

[Choi Jin]
It's not that the presentation isn't coming out, it's just that I'm staying silent. It's a phrase, actually. At this point, the pro-Yoon-gye would have done martial law if the president had died. We need to protect the president or protect him by providing some grounds, but there isn't a single person, right? Rather, aren't senior officials and those who recently defended President Yoon silent? As such, the position of pro-Yoon-gye is inevitably very difficult due to this incident. And in a way, there is a high possibility that some of the pro-Yoon system will break away and become semi-Yoon.

So what I would like to suggest next time is that the way pro-Yoon-gye helps President Yoon Suk Yeol is different from the past. You don't have to say yes or okay unconditionally, but you have to say strongly that you don't have to play the media through the media publicly, but you have to say that you don't have to do it internally. What I felt during my long career in public service at Cheong Wa Dae is that if the presidential chief of staff or senior secretaries or key figures go and martial law, it will be a big problem. If you see any sign of that. Then we'll all resign and leave completely, not bluffing. If you make such a loyal threat, the president can't easily do it. I'm a question mark as to whether there was such a loyal aide in the process of martial law.

[Anchor]
Today, CEO Lee Jae-myung said this. As soon as emergency martial law measures using force are deemed ineffective, President Yoon Suk Yeol will wage a local war. I said this, and the representative of the country is a person who can even press the start of the war button, so what do you think of this part?

[Choi Jin]
I think it's possible because President Yoon Suk Yeol has done a lot of unconventional actions. And in the past, there have been many local wars, north winds, shootings, etc. in order to actually change the crisis phase in our constitutional history. In that respect, I think I mentioned it first to block the second and third situation in advance. I don't think that should ever happen.

[Anchor]
President Yoon's approval rating is not high, so what do you think the results will be this week?

[Changgeun Lee]
Now, the approval rating has fallen below the 20% range again. There is a sense of crisis that this emergency martial law crisis could lead to single digits. This is because all the people are not convinced. That's why I think the approval rating is likely to fall into the abyss.

[Choi Jin]
The important thing is that even if President Yoon Suk Yeol's approval rating falls to single digits, it is highly likely that Lee Jae-myung or the Democratic Party of Korea's approval rating will not rise. The more difficult the government is, the more they appreciate it from the people's point of view if they show something co-prosperity. It's a great opportunity to be seen as a national leader, not an opposition leader, so to speak. From the perspective of Chairman Lee Jae-myung or the Democratic Party.

[Changgeun Lee]
From that point of view, representative Lee Jae-myung or representative Cho Kuk should refrain from making such remarks that further promote local war and public anxiety.

[Anchor]
I see. Let's stop here today. The Power of the People Lee Chang-geun joined Hanam-si, Gyeonggi-do, Chairman of the Party Cooperation Committee and Choi Jin, Chairman of the Presidential Leadership Research Institute. Thank you.