[Issue Plus] Director of the National Audit Office, Hani...Comedian Lee Jin-ho's "illegal gambling" scandal.

■ Host: Lee Yeo-jin, anchor Jang Won-seok
■ Starring: Ha Jae-geun, cultural critic

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN News PLUS] when quoting.

[Anchor]
Hani, a member of the girl group New Jin's, who raised suspicions of bullying in the workplace, served as a reference to the parliamentary audit yesterday.

[Anchor]
On the other hand, famous comedian Lee Jin-ho confessed to illegal gambling, and the repercussions are growing. Let's take a look at the related content with cultural critic Ha Jae-geun. Please come in.

[Anchor]
Yesterday, I was the first idol to do an inspection. Let's listen to it and talk about it.

[Anchor]
New Jin's Hani, I talked in tears yesterday and also had a truth battle with CEO Kim Joo-young. What's the issue?

[Ha Jae-geun]
I'm saying that Hani has been told by another group manager of another label in the past to ignore where I can hear it. That's why I'm saying it's out of me. When I asked the current CEO of Audor to correct this, there was no evidence because it's been too long, so I can't do anything about it, and he answered me tepidly like this, saying there's a problem.

Another point is that some high-ranking people in the company do not accept our greetings even if we say hello. I raised a question like, "Isn't the company ignoring and disliking us?"

[Anchor]
Hani actually referred to the company as Hive. However, if you look at it legally and simply, not morally, can bullying in the workplace and power abuse in the workplace be established because corporations are different?

[Ha Jae-geun]
This is to say that I heard that from another group manager of another label. If it's a different label, it means it's a different affiliate. If it's a different label manager, there's a feeling that it's a guy with this singer. It's not only on paper, but it's also moving completely separately.

The fact that the label is different means that this singer and this singer work separately. So if I tell another label manager something bad like that, the manager is now claiming that he didn't say it, and even if I heard it, I might feel bad, because of that.

There is a question of whether it can be called bullying or bullying in the workplace. The second issue is that CCTV footage is very important. There is evidence that it is a CCTV video, but Hive seems to suspect that it was deleted. But even CCTV footage doesn't have sound, right?

Then, there is a part where the word "ignore" can be presented as decisive evidence even if there was a CCTV video. In addition, the National Assembly took Representative Audor and asked him a question as if he was scolding him, and the incident happened in May. At that time, the CEO of Audor was Min Hee-jin.

Now, the current representative has just become a representative, but there is a question about whether it is appropriate to talk about it in the National Assembly itself.

[Anchor]
Also, in order for workplace harassment to be established, shouldn't worker character be recognized? I understand that the Ministry of Employment and Labor has previously judged that celebrities are subject to exceptions that do not belong to workers, what do you think?

[Ha Jae-geun]
Basically, it is said that it applies to workers of all businesses that use more than five workers at all times under the Labor Standards Act. It is said that celebrities are difficult to be classified as workers because they have a special contract. However, legal matters are not important, but if someone is treated unfairly on a moral level, our society should support it and there should be correction.

However, in this discussion, I don't know who was treated unfairly or who was the victim. The controversy began with a dispute between Hive and Min Hee-jin. But Hive and Min Hee-jin are saying that the other person did something wrong. I have no idea who the victim is, and it seems that he will eventually be covered in court.
But I think there can be such a story as to whether the National Assembly has taken a neutral position if the debate in the National Assembly calls one party and unilaterally asks questions like this, as if they are supporting it, and Hive is scolding it.

[Anchor]
In the first place, if things like worker characteristics are clearly established, this purpose would be accepted, but he said he didn't understand that part. In the past, when TVXQ had an issue with SM, wasn't worker quality a problem?

[Ha Jae-geun]
Workers are also workers, but various celebrities are treated unfairly, which is why our society was outraged. The story that came out at the time was about slave contracts. That's why the problem of the contract for too long has been corrected since then. But we've been tamed by such controversy. That's why when there is a dispute between a celebrity and a large agency, we tend to blame the agency almost inertly.

That's how the media reports are coming out. So I think the lawmakers asked questions as if they were scolding Hive strictly. As I said earlier, in the case of this case, this is derived from the confrontation between Min Hee-jin and Hive, and I don't know which one is right or who is the victim. So I don't think you should make a hasty decision.

[Anchor]
As you said, in a situation where there is a management dispute within Hive and both sides are fiercely fighting in court, I wonder if the National Assembly has given power to one side as a result of whatever intention.

[Ha Jae-geun]
As you said, I called Hani and Audor at the same time, but Hani said that some lawmakers took pictures and even attached the image of Newzins fandom on their laptops to the extent that it was a meeting of lawmakers. I think that's why they're completely on my side. On the other hand, he asks questions to CEO Audor like he's scolding him.

There was no conclusion about the nature of this situation, but I don't understand how they can explicitly side with each other, and this was the National Audit Office of the Environment and Labor Commission. The Environment and Labor Commission deals with such serious cases, and this is where people's lives go back and forth, and of course, the human rights of celebrities are important, but celebrities heard bad things about me when I went somewhere, and high-ranking people at the company didn't accept my greetings.

At a valuable time, of course, it was an important event, but there was a situation where people's lives went back and forth. Isn't the gravity of the current issue so wrong? As a result of lawmakers focusing too much on the topic, I suspect that they have caught up on this issue too hastily, and it is regrettable in some ways.

[Anchor]
As you just said, there are many serious cases to be dealt with by the Environmental Labor Relations Commission. Among them, the president of Hanwha Ocean's Geoje plant, which had a worker's death accident, was present, and he was also criticized for taking a selfie with Hani sitting in the back seat.

[Ha Jae-geun]
I couldn't understand it at all. Hani, who is the president of Hanwha Ocean's Geoje business, is sitting in the back seat, and it looks like she took a selfie. You have a smile on your face. Hani attended there as a reference that day, but that person was a witness. How can a celebrity be seen in such a situation and take selfies like that when they are in a position to be questioned about the death of five or several people involved in that workplace?

There are situations where you don't understand. The members of the National Assembly are excited to take pictures over there, and some members of the National Assembly are broadcasting, so I wonder if the atmosphere is so high that they even came out like that. Anyway, in the case of Hanwha Ocean, it's a big deal.
is being criticized a lot.

Therefore, the representative deeply apologizes and announced his apology to the people, the National Assembly, and the bereaved families for the very inappropriate behavior of our executives.

[Anchor]
On the 6th of last month, the Ministry of Employment and Labor announced 100 top Korean jobs this year, and Hive was included in it.

[Ha Jae-geun]
That's right. As a result, there are a lot of noises related to Hive, and celebrities are saying, "We have been treated unfairly," and some say that it is wrong to include them as the top job company. As I keep saying, this controversy started with the Hive and Min Hee-jin controversy. Of course, if there is anything wrong with Hive's corporate culture, it must be corrected.

However, in the process of controversy with former CEO Min Hee-jin, this continues like a sweet potato stem, and as a result, the effect of defending CEO Min Hee-jin continues to appear. But I don't know who did the wrong thing right now. I think our society should approach this case carefully instead of trying to jump to conclusions. In the end, I think the wrongs between CEO Min Hee-jin and Hive will be covered in court. We haven't reached a conclusion yet.

So I think I should watch the conclusion calmly in court and make a judgment later, and apart from that, if there is a wrong culture inside the Hive, it should be corrected.

[Anchor]
There was also a prediction in the stock market that Newzins activities are likely to be excluded from Hive earnings estimates. There are no official activities after Tokyo Dome, so will Newzins activities be possible smoothly in the future?

[Ha Jae-geun]
I'm going to a phase where I was so worried. At first, when Min Hee-jin started Hive's dispute, many people were worried about New Jin's. Therefore, disputes between the CEO and the parent company should be taken care of by themselves and the artist should be protected.

Many people said that activities should be carried out normally, apart from the conflict, but Newzins himself, who actually tried to protect, kept coming to the center of the situation. Not only did they broadcast like that, but they came out to the National Assembly this time, and they were in the middle of a dispute, so Hani said this time that representative Audor had to fight to protect us.

You have to fight. You have to fight Hive. It's interpreted as this. Then, does the artist consider the parent company to be the target of a fight? Then, how can proper activities be possible in such a structure? I'm very worried. So, I keep telling you that the dispute between CEO Min Hee-jin and Hive will have to wait and see how it will be concluded in court, and apart from that, Newzins hopes to continue its normal activities.

[Anchor]
Wouldn't it be a loss for both sides as the battle between the two sides gets longer? I hope it ends quickly. Let's move on to the next topic. Controversy has been brewing over comedian Lee Jin-ho, who confessed to illegal gambling on the Internet. The police launched an internal investigation?

[Ha Jae-geun]
The police started domestic demand, and Lee Jin-ho admitted that he had illegally gambled. That's why it's an internal investigation, but it's predicted that it will be converted to a formal investigation soon. And there will be an investigation into illegal gambling. Another suspicion is that Lee Jin-ho borrowed a lot of money, and there is also a suspicion that this could be a fraud, so the police will investigate illegal gambling and fraud allegations.

[Anchor]
I think we'll know only after various investigations take place. Among the various suspicions, it is difficult for even a celebrity to borrow a large amount of money without collateral, so what do you think about the suspicion that he is involved in an illegal company?

[Ha Jae-geun]
It is said that Lee Jin-ho borrowed about 1.3 billion won from a loan shark, but we usually gamble and spend all the money and fall into debt. We talk a lot like this. In the case of Lee Jin-ho, he used up his fortune first and then started gambling.

I lost all my fortune because of the investment. Then we started gambling, and when we borrow money while we don't have money, we usually get collateral. But if you don't have property, there's nothing to be collateralized. How did he borrow 1.3 billion won in that situation? Are you saying that it was borrowed from a normal company? People have come to have such doubts. It seems that the police will probably investigate this part as well.

[Anchor]
It seems that the celebrities who lent money are also on fire, but BTS Jimin, comedian Lee Soo-geun, and singer Young-tak have lent a lot.

[Ha Jae-geun]
Many celebrities lent me money. In addition, according to a media report, there are some celebrities who lent 500 million won, which is not yet known. Of course, I don't know if this is all true. In the case of celebrities, what's bad about them is that they lent Lee Jin-ho, but did they use all the loan cards to lend money? This is becoming an issue right now.

If you lend money without an IOU, but it is considered a gift, so you may get a gift tax bomb. I think there will be an investigation in the future. In the case of Jimin, a BTS, he used an IOU. When he borrowed money from celebrities, Lee Jin-ho lied, saying, "I borrow money because of my parents or to pay taxes." This part is also controversial right now.

[Anchor]
The celebrities who lent the money are also talking about the way they pay back, but in the case of Youngtak, he received all the money he lent. He said that.

[Ha Jae-geun]
Youngtak fortunately received the money. When it comes to investigating whether it is fraudulent or not, the important thing is whether you had the intention and ability to pay back the money. However, if you say that you haven't paid all the celebrities back, the question may arise that you were not willing to pay them back. Youngtak and some celebrities said they got it.

Then, it can be determined whether he was willing to pay back the money. However, since there are more than one or two people who lent money, I think we can find out the truth only by conducting a thorough investigation into the cases of lending by all celebrities.

[Anchor]
The size of the illegal gambling market has already exceeded 100 trillion won. Also, it was investigated that the number of related reports tripled over four years, but it's very serious, right?

[Ha Jae-geun]
The gambling problem was so serious. The number of reported online gambling cases increased from 18,000 in 2020 to 39,000 in 2023. And there was also a claim that the size of the online gambling market exceeded 37 trillion won in 2022.

The problem is too serious. In particular, teenagers are very involved in this. That's why there are many cases where teenagers commit other crimes because of gambling debt, so we have to deal with this quickly. The problem is that the server of gambling sites is overseas, so there are many cases where we can't investigate them properly.

So how to deal with the servers that are overseas. When the gambling incident occurs, it seems necessary to establish a system of cooperation with foreign countries at the government level and diplomatic level, not at the police level.

[Anchor]
Let's wrap up the last topic with something pleasant. Novelist Han Kang's book has surpassed 1 million copies in six days. Isn't it very unusual?

[Ha Jae-geun]
It's incredible. The number of 1 million copies itself is huge, and if you just do 1 million, it's a symbol of the national bestseller in Korea, a symbol of the national syndrome, and so on. Besides, it's not like a genre novel. It's pure literature and pure art fiction, and it's exceeded 1 million copies, so it can be said that a huge national syndrome has unfolded.

[Anchor]
The publishing industry says that selling 50,000 copies is a box office hit, and selling 100,000 copies is a big hit. It's a million copies in six days, so it's really huge. It's just a syndrome, but it's said that there are still out of stock all over the world. Also, in Belgium, books were stolen as soon as they were placed in the library.

[Ha Jae-geun]
It is said that the Korean Cultural Center in Brussels, Belgium, has placed books by Han River in its internal library. However, it is said that the vegetarian's application in Korean has disappeared. A Belgian took Han Kang out of curiosity because he became so famous. That's how the local community sees it, but it seems that there is a global craze, and this opportunity will eventually lead to greater interest in Korean literature, Korean culture, and Korea.

[Anchor]
I'd appreciate it if anyone who stole the book could quickly return it. Ha Jae-geun was a cultural critic. Thank you.