[Shaking] Democratic Party of Korea's "blue clothes" ban?Hong Joon Pyo Criticizes Prosecution of Lee Jae-myung

■ Host: Kim Sun-young Anchor
■ Starring: Choi Chang-ryul, Special Professor at Yongin University, Kim Jin, former Editorial Writer at JoongAng Ilbo

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN NewsNOW] when quoting.

[Anchor]
Let's start with a political commentary with a lively angle. Today, Kim Jin, a former editor of the JoongAng Ilbo, and Choi Chang-ryul, a special professor at Yongin University, are here today. Welcome. Let's look at today's first keyword. Blue comes to mind when you think of Democratic Party rallies. However, it is said that a notice has been issued not to wear blue clothes at the Democratic Party's outdoor rally tomorrow. Why can't I wear it when it's the color of the Democratic Party?

[Kim Jin]
If it is classified as a Democratic Party rally under the current circumstances, wouldn't it give the impression that it is Lee Jae-myung's judicial risk bulletproof rally? When the public does that, the number of participants, including the middle class, becomes extremely limited. The public is vulnerable to incitement, but there are boundaries that the public thinks. It is a judicial matter. During the
Moon Jae In administration, there were always limited participants in the Liberal Republican Party rallies claiming that President Park Geun Hye was innocent. It didn't improve any more. On the other hand, there was a huge influx of ordinary citizens from Gyeongbokgung Palace to Namdaemun to denounce the Moon Jae In regime's wrongdoings, regardless of whether or not the president of Park Geun Hye was guilty as a judicial matter. The same goes for the
Democratic Party rally. Since the first judicial conclusion has already been reached, it is wrong, and if representative Lee Jae-myung continues to claim in blue like that, he will be caught in the frame of the image of a bulletproof rally, so there will be no expansion of the middle class. The Democratic Party is starting to notice that.

[Anchor]
He said that let's not show that he is a Democrat.

[Choi Chang Ryul]
So, it's a rally hosted by the Democratic Party of Korea, and the reason is Kim Gun-hee's call for an independent counsel and the resignation of the government.Realistically, CEO Lee Jae-myung's trial is next Monday. There was another trial in the first trial. In any case, I don't think there is any intention of using public opinion to influence the trial. However, if it is completely blue here and is completely recognized as the Democratic Party's outdoor rally, as Kim Jin said, there is no room for the general public to squeeze into it. So, the general public may feel alienated, and even if they agree to a rally hosted by the Democratic Party, they can't go even if they agree to it when they openly reveal blue, overly partisan, and partisan colors? I think that's a strategic part of it.

[Anchor]
Do you think more people will come if you don't wear blue?

[Choi Chang Ryul]
I don't think it's going to come that much. And I don't think that rally was that successful. That's about the first trial. The results of the poll will come out later.If you think Ma was a really unfair trial, it should have increased completely the next day. But it wasn't like that. And I don't know. There will be another rally tomorrow, right? However, if this is the result of a trial that is very unfair and close to oppression, such blue and red are not the problem. The public opinion of the public works. I think that's the principle of national sovereignty, so wearing blue and red is not an important issue. However, the Democratic Party seems to have a perception that it is quite cornering right now and in a crisis.

[Anchor]
I told you not to wear blue, but there's no one wearing red, right?

[Choi Chang Ryul]
That's how it should be. But I might wear red. I just hope you don't get overly obsessed with red and blue now. Even if I want to wear red, I can't wear it. though not the power of the people But I'm afraid I'll be conscious.

[Anchor]
Let's wear it next week.

[Choi Chang Ryul]
I'll wear it next week. Anyway, there's a symbol of our Chi-ga party.Ma is an excessively red and blue voice. You should wear blue next week.

[Kim Jin]
I've already worn blue, red, and red tie as often as I wear them.

[Anchor]
Next week, the two of you will change it and wear it.

[Kim Jin]
I'm a colored tie.

[Anchor]
Why did the Democratic Party ban blue? Rep. Kim Byung-joo also said this. Let's listen to it.

[Anchor]
Now that it's time to wear a padded jacket and blue clothes, some people say that there are no clothes that fit me, but I'm thinking about gathering more middle-class people.

[Kim Jin]
Now, that rally led by Representative Lee Jae-myung has already lost much of its power. We held three rallies, and the average police estimate is 20,000 each time. But in the Democratic Party of Korea, you say 300,000, 200, 300,000, and that's about 10 times exaggerated bluster, and why the power was fundamentally lost, this is a public sentiment against the important Democratic Party. A rally to denounce the Moon Jae In regime during the Moon Jae In regime. During the protest for being deceived by Kim Jong-un in various ways and large-scale manipulation incidents, it was filled from the main gate of Gyeongbokgung Palace to Namdaemun to the point where shoulders and shoulders collided completely. In that case, it will be about 150,000 to 150,000 rallies estimated by the police. At least five times as much power as the Democratic Party of Korea's current rally and public support were at the rally to condemn the Moon Jae In regime.

Why is the public rally so small despite the Democratic Party's argument that President Yoon Suk Yeol and his wife should criticize state affairs, impeach President Yoon Suk Yeol and independent counsel Kim Gun-hee? It's already been revealed that the facts that the Democratic Party is talking about and that the legal principles, logic and arguments are not reasonable in the judgment of many members of the public. Furthermore, it has already lost its momentum in the face of the judiciary's heavy sentence in the first trial and another sentence on the 25th.

[Anchor]
Anyway, this weekend's rally is very important because the first trial of the perjury teacher's trial will be announced on Monday, so it will be very important to drive this atmosphere, but CEO Lee Jae-myung's speech is almost omitted. What does that mean?

[Choi Chang Ryul]
All of those parts can stimulate the judiciary, and in the eyes of the people, it's like a heavy sentence in the first trial. On the 18th, the day before yesterday, because something unexpectedly strong was made. In such a situation, I think Representative Lee Jae-myung condemned the government and spoke about the judiciary, and decided that it was not very useful in terms of judicial strategy. First of all, we have to talk about that when we are completely free from trial, but even if we criticize the current administration and talk about Kim Gun-hee, I think we should stop talking in a situation where we are not free from our own judicial risks.

[Anchor]
Does it reflect such an atmosphere that it will not provoke the judiciary? This morning, Democratic Party Chairman Lee Jae-myung said this. Let's listen to it.

[Anchor]
Ahead of the first trial of the perjury teacher's trial next Monday, representative Lee Jae-myung said this morning that the independence of the judiciary is important. What kind of background is there?

[Kim Jin]
I don't understand why he's so weak all of a sudden.

[Anchor]
Do I look weak?

[Kim Jin]
It's a weak figure, and it's a tail down. I will avoid any extreme appearance in the hall and impeach judges in the hall and on the floor. Representative Lee Jae-myung and the Democratic Party threatened the judiciary in this way. Then, when I feel a great danger in the perjury teacher case, I change in that way, but the Democratic Party of Korea is making a big mistake now, so we shouldn't think of Chief Justice Cho Hee-dae's judiciary as Chief Justice Kim Myung-soo's judiciary. I've covered it several times, and if you listen to my close classmates and legal figures who are close to Chief Justice Cho Hee-dae, Chief Justice Cho Hee-dae has a strong will to be very neutral in these political cases, especially. Representative Cho Kuk's Supreme Court sentence was decided on December 12th. It is a very important implication even ahead of the perjury teacher case. Since it won 12 seats in the April general election and gained the support of a significant number of voters, it is not immediately sentenced to the Supreme Court, but left it to engage in political activities for about seven months, and the court is afraid. Before the end of this year, Lee Jae-myung's first trial was sentenced, followed by perjury, and one important threshold was crossed, so the Supreme Court's sentence for Cho Kuk was set for December 12th. The court is very scary.

[Anchor]
Do you think it contains the will of the judiciary?

[Kim Jin] It contains
will. Since the Supreme Court does not consider facts, it is very unlikely that representative Cho Kuk will be overturned in the Supreme Court. And since the Supreme Court is not the Supreme Court under Chief Justice Kim Myung-soo, but the Supreme Court, whose members have a right-wing majority, it is highly likely that the political life, or physical life, of the representative of the country, will be imprisoned on December 12.

Then, the Democratic Party of Korea evaluated Cho Hee-dae's Supreme Court judiciary before and after the first trial. The judiciary committee increased the budget by 20 billion won even without the Supreme Court's request, while threatening the judiciary through physical rallies outside the court. What kind of hearing would the judiciary have felt, a judge made up of the elite among the elite? I think you must have felt quite insulted. If I added a little, we were mocked. He tried to gain favor with us with 20 billion won. On the other hand, the judiciary felt very insulted by the fact that some judges were impeached during a large-scale rally outside and the judiciary was rushing as if it were the beginning of some kind of power, which worked to add to the sentencing of representative Lee Jae-myung in the first trial. CEO Lee Jae-myung felt it and was afraid of it, so now he changed a lot, I see it like this.

[Anchor]
As you said, personally, you said that the Democratic Party of Korea had a wrong strategy, but the Democratic Party leadership continued to criticize the judiciary. For example, in the case of floor leader Park Chan-dae, he expressed that the first trial ruling against representative Lee Jae-myung was a judicial murder. Kim Min-seok, a Supreme Council member, is a judge who graduated from Seoul National University's law school? There are even stories like this. I also said this. Representative Lee Jae-myung's remarks today, which came three days before the first trial of perjury, are quite different from those of the leadership.

[Choi Chang Ryul]
Your comments are so childish. Supreme Council member Kim Min-seok is a judge who graduated from Seoul National University's law school. Can I do it like this if I get another law school? This is a very substandard statement, and it is a very inappropriate statement according to the way it looks.
It's like talking about a particular university. Another thing is that floor leader Park Chan-dae said it was a clear judicial murder, but at an outdoor rally the day after the trial, as far as I remember, it was a political ruling that served to remove political opponents of the prosecution's dictatorship. These are remarks that should not be made. Han, but I can criticize the judiciary for its judgment. Logically, this is wrong. It's too much. You can do it as much as you want. It's a political judgment that works against the dictatorship of the prosecution. This is a completely different thing.

Regardless of the issues of politics and the rule of law, the leadership of the main opposition party should not say this. Of course, there may be complaints about CEO Lee Jae-myung's trial. However, anyway, the judiciary is a power organization that we respect within the constitutional process, so how can you say this? That's why CEO Lee Jae-myung's remarks were correct. You really should have had this kind of tone. If you look at it again here, the independence of the judiciary should be guaranteed in the remarks of representative Lee Jae-myung, and that he believes in the judiciary is related to his trial. I'm saying that because I trust the judiciary, I know that I'll be innocent as we claim. So anyway, I think we should maintain the basis of Lee Jae-myung's remarks, anyway. But you can't talk about Park Chan-dae's CEO or Kim Min-seok's best. Is this how you talk about the judiciary? Then who would talk about the Democratic Party so carelessly? The Democratic Party is also in legislative power.

[Anchor]
party-level strategy modification Can I look at it like this? But the leadership isn't talking like this right now. Representative Lee Jae-myung,
is saying this, but representative Lee Jae-myung changed his position last year as well. You know, when you're going through a warrant review. That's why the judiciary judges it, and we respect legislative power. Instead, we respect legislative power, but we are also criticizing the legislature's decision, right? But you're not criticizing the judiciary, you're criticizing the judiciary. This is different from criticism and accusation. Even if these are not the trials of Representative Lee Jae-myung, I don't think these are the things that the elected power of the legislature should say, at least within the constitutional system of Korea.

[Anchor]
While representative Lee Jae-myung served as representative, there were quite a few trials. We're going to have five trials. Additional charges were also filed regarding the alleged misappropriation of corporate credit cards, and Daegu Mayor Hong Joon Pyo wrote this. I posted something like, "I'm confused if it's just a disgrace." How do you see that?

[Kim Jin]
The most important political style of a Hong Joon Pyo representative is always differentiated himself from a person who has a leading position in a certain situation. If the president of Yoon Suk Yeol takes the lead, he discriminated against him and discriminated against representative Han Dong-hoon. First of all, I don't deserve to say that. When I was the floor leader of the Grand National Party, I took out hundreds of millions of won in cash from special activity expenses that I told him to spend on parliamentary activities and brought him my wife. The wife put it in the bank's secret safe and the couple held hundreds of millions of won as cash equivalents. It's the Gyeonggi-do governor's corporate card or the ruling party's floor leader's National Assembly Steering Committee. Special activity expenses and public funds are all the same. So the statute of limitations has passed.In the case of the late lawmaker Roh Hoe-chan, he was criticized for having to investigate that on embezzlement charges. And during the presidential election, the prosecution's indictment of Professor Cho Kuk is killing a family. It's differentiated like this. He attacked candidate Yoon Suk Yeol at the time, saying that he was trying to develop his political ambition by pushing Yoon Suk Yeol against Professor Cho Kuk like that.
First of all, wasn't CEO Hong Joon Pyo a prosecutor? He used to be a prosecutor. Then, did he conduct massive investigations like that during the Kim Young-sam administration, including former senior economic secretary Kim Jong-in? Then, should we not have prosecuted appropriately? It's a statement that doesn't make sense from the perspective of the rule of law.

[Anchor]
Former lawmaker Kim Woong also said that the mayor of Hong Joon Pyo is excessively immersed in political romance. Let's listen to
. The mayor of Hong Joon Pyo is also praised by the Democratic Party.

[Choi Chang Ryul]
But that part is suspected of misappropriating corporate cards. There's no way the law enforcement agency, the law enforcement agency, can't prosecute what's suspected. You can't say anything about the indictment. But the problem is that the opposition party will have something to say politically. Mrs. Kim Gun-hee's alleged stock manipulation cases and these are being tried four times without prosecution. We will see the results of the trial to see if the misappropriation of corporate credit cards is true or not.Ma, legally. You can say, "Do I have to prosecute?" Nevertheless, anyway, it's weak to say why you prosecuted this issue when there was a corporate card issue and an official car issue in the case of prosecution. I shouldn't have done this. Now that everyone else has done it, it's something the opposition can say that why they're investigating only that part. I thought I wouldn't prosecute this either. I thought I didn't have to prosecute, but I prosecuted it. It means why did you prosecute a corporate card so cheaply? I think there is little justification for saying this.

[Anchor]
Anyway, the first trial of perjury teacher will be announced next Monday, and there are many talks about what the atmosphere will be like after the Democratic Party of Korea, and in the case of former lawmaker Seol Hoon, in a radio interview today, isn't it right for Lee Jae-myung to resign on his own? I brought up the word resignation for the first time. How likely do you think that is?

[Kim Jin]
I think it's already only a matter of time and the train has already left. No matter how much the Democratic Party rallies and refutes, if Lee Jae-myung is sentenced to imprisonment or higher in the perjury teacher case and is deprived of his qualification for running for president for the second time, this is a one-, two-, straight punch for Lee Jae-myung. And political parties are not a group of feelings or loyalty. It's a cruel group of realistic calculations. The important reason why Lee Jae-myung can be the representative now is because of his fantastic belief that he is innocent and that he has a more than 90% chance of running for president and becoming the party's presidential candidate. If the possibility falls to 40% or 30% due to the one-two straight punch and is shaken, not only the screaming world but also the pro-Myeong community will turn their back on him and talk of resigning from the leadership, and no one in the political party can stop that trend. In particular, if something becomes certain judicial, political parties are a group of harsh calculations.

[Anchor]
You likened the train to leaving, but would it be a reflective benefit to representative Lee Jae-myung's judicial risk? Let's talk about President Yoon's approval rating. Please show us the next keyword. Are supporters rallying? President Yoon Suk Yeol's approval rating Please show the results of the NBA poll. Denial and affirmation are coming out. Positive approval rating of 19 to 27%. Of course, although it is still a low approval rating, the increase was large. How do you see it?

[Choi Chang Ryul]
It's a huge one. That's not Gallup right now. It's not Gallup, but it's NBS. As that graph shows, the trend has been falling all the way. But if it's 8% now, it's up considerably. in two weeks In the end, as I said earlier, it will be a reflection of the results of Lee Jae-myung's trial. And the conservatives are also rallying. And in the meantime, the conflict between the president and the ruling party leader has almost reached a critical point, but the atmosphere has eased a little as representative Han Dong-hoon talked about the special inspector without talking about the special prosecutor. Conflicts between the heads of the ruling party and the ruling party are also alleviated. In addition, the judicial risk of the opposition leader is becoming a reality. In this situation, there is a rebound, and there seems to be a diplomatic problem as well as a rally of supporters. Like
APEC or G20 summit meeting and meeting several leaders. There are many good things for the passport right now. In addition, there is bad news for the opposition party on this side. It also includes reflective benefits from bad news plus its own diplomatic achievements, but the problem is that we cannot guarantee whether that will continue in the future.

The issue of Kim Gun-hee's special prosecutor is still a detonator and it's a problem that needs to be solved somehow. It's very likely that the president will veto it, but it's very likely that it will be voted down again, but it can't go on like this. The only problem is that there will be personnel reshuffles in the future to reform the state administration. There are also various hippopotamus reviews, and I think those things will replace the future direction of approval ratings, whether the people make such greetings that can be recognized as convincing innovation.

[Anchor]
Some people seem to be concerned that the president's office will reduce the scope of reform if there is such an upward trend. How did you like it?

[Kim Jin]
Reform is one of the many factors behind the rebound in approval ratings, and most importantly, President Yoon's public apology last time. Mrs. Kim's suspension of external activities, acceptance of special inspectors, and commencement of personnel reform. These four measures became the momentum for the start of the rebound. However, in the middle of the judicial sentence against representative Lee Jae-myung, the head of the anti-Yoon Seok-yeol force, was shaken, so the rebound accelerated with the reflected profits. So once it remains around 30%, President Yoon Suk Yeol will have no problem running state affairs. personnel reshuffling There are many variables in personnel reform. The prime minister's issue, the opposition's confirmation issue, and I don't think it's going to be at least some size because there are a number of ministers who have already been over two years, if not significantly.

[Anchor]
This time, President Yoon Suk Yeol went on an overseas trip alone. I returned home at 5 a.m. yesterday, but I did not see the party leadership at the scene of returning home. Let's listen to the politics related to it for a while. First of all, the presidential office said that it was 5 a.m., so he didn't have to come out. But is it true that it really didn't come out? I think there are many different opinions. How did you like it?

[Choi Chang Ryul]
As Choi Jae-sung said, I heard the lyrics of the popular song, but of course, I would have said that it doesn't have to come out of the president's office because it's early in the morning. Again, floor leader Choo Kyung-ho caught a cold. That's what happened. But CEO Han Dong-hoon may have thought there was no need to go out, but as I said earlier, the conflict within the passport has subsided. At times like this, I think it would have been nice to go out and shake hands, but Han Dong-hoon is the party leader in his own way, but he seems to be embarrassed at 5 a.m.

[Anchor]
But you might think that it's right not to go out because you told me not to come.

[Choi Chang Ryul]
If you told me not to come, I shouldn't go out. But I don't think I would have done that. It's early in the morning for convenience, but I wonder if it would have been better to leave.

[Anchor]
Usually, if you spend a long time in society, it means that if your boss tells you not to come, you should still come, but what kind of intention did CEO Han Dong-hoon want to convey? What do you think?

[Kim Jin]
I don't think the Andong Station metaphor is right. Andong Station is probably a song by Na Hoon-ah, because it's about waiting for a lover who you love dearly. CEO Han Dong-hoon would be a lover to the president of Yoon Suk Yeol. The Andong Station metaphor is not correct, and floor leader Choo Kyung-ho is talking about a cold, but when I judged, I wanted to go out, but I don't think he went out because representative Han Dong-hoon didn't.

[Anchor]
Even if you go out alone, you'll be able to talk about it.

[Kim Jin]
It's weird to go out alone. Rather, it encourages conflict between the government and the government, if you go out alone. Therefore, CEO Han Dong-hoon did not go out, so he was forced to not go out, and CEO Han Dong-hoon missed such a golden opportunity. Apart from attacking President Yoon Suk Yeol, after President Yoon Suk Yeol apologized to the public, Representative Han Dong-hoon completely stopped attacking President Yoon and changed it to a cooperative mode. And you're focusing your attacks on CEO Lee Jae-myung. That appealed to conservative voters in large part. That's why his antipathy toward CEO Han Dong-hoon has decreased a lot. At this time, I told him not to come out because it was early at 5 a.m., but he went out and said hello and shook hands. If you take a picture of it, you can get out of the responsibility that you are the main culprit of the conflict between the party and the government.

[Anchor]
Did President Yoon feel a little better?

[Kim Jin]
Yoon is now in a situation where he can't give an image like he's lecturing Han Dong-hoon, for example, last time. If you go out at dawn, the Showwind couple could start. But why didn't CEO Han Dong-hoon go out? Is it a lack of political sense, or is it a style that insists on a certain emotional goal inside, or is it thirdly influenced by the recent party bulletin board incident? I'm making this estimate.

[Anchor]
Maybe he really wanted to go out, but he couldn't go out together because he was really sick.

[Kim Jin]
Only you can go out. At that time, if you go out, you can resolve the conflict between the party and the government, and it becomes a good image.

[Anchor]
It was my imagination. I'll stop Jungkook here today. They were Kim Jin, a former editorial writer, and Choi Chang-ryul, a special professor. Thank you.