[NEWS NIGHT] Continued 'judicial risk'...Party membership bulletin board conflict intensifies

■ Host: Anchor Sung Moon-gyu
■ Starring: Song Young-hoon, spokesman for the People's Power, Sung Chi-hoon, vice chairman of the Minjoo Party's Policy Committee

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN NewsNIGHT] when quoting.

[Anchor]
It's time for "Focus Night" to point out the news of political interest. Today, Song Young-hoon, spokesman for the People's Power, and Sung Chi-hoon, vice chairman of the Democratic Party's Policy Committee, came out. How are you? The first trial of Lee Jae-myung's perjury teacher case is just three days away. In the midst of this, CEO Lee issued a message to the judiciary today. I'll listen to it myself.

[Lee Jae-myung / Minjoo Party Leader: Once, even if it goes wrong, it will surely come to its way, and I am confident that this independence, conscience, and pursuit of justice have led to democracy in this country. For two years, I was dragged into court, but it was also the judiciary of the Republic of Korea that eventually returned to the court and found its place after a few twists and turns. I would like to express my gratitude and respect to the majority of judges who are doing their best to ensure that human rights and democracy are protected and to the judiciary. ]

[Anchor]
He mentioned his past acquittal and rejection of arrest warrants, and mentioned gratitude and respect to the judiciary. You also said you believe in the judiciary of the Republic of Korea. How did you hear it, spokesman Song?

[Song Young Hoon]
If there are several cases in which the defendant is facing a criminal trial, the best thing to know is the defendant himself. Representative Lee Jae-myung showed a very flat-faced attitude toward the court, which is hard to see before, and that is the evidence that representative Lee Jae-myung now feels that the case is the most threatening to him right now ahead of the verdict of the perjury teacher case. But I changed my attitude like that late, but I think it's too late. There are two main reasons. First, the court has long seen representative Lee Jae-myung and the Democratic Party of Korea hold outdoor rallies day after day, threatening the judiciary. In particular, the court has seen all the absurd remarks such as judicial murder and whether Lee Jae-myung is a judge from Seoul National University of Law after the conviction of Representative Lee Jae-myung for violating the election law. And the justice department must have seen the attitude of representative Lee Jae-myung himself being tried. The other thing is what Lee Jae-myung said right before he made his statement, saying, "You may have forgotten about it, but I charged myself with the fact that I forced my brother into hospitalization." That's what I said. I read it as it was. But that comment is also a lie. Because if you look at the ruling in the case of the Gyeonggi-do governor's election law in the past, it was recognized that Lee Jae-myung ordered his brother to be forcibly hospitalized in accordance with Article 25 of the Mental Health Act at the time. However, the fact that representative Lee Jae-myung recognized that it was not a requirement for compulsory hospitalization was not sufficiently proven, so he was acquitted. So I can tell you that it's a statement that doesn't help change the court's position at all because you're still making false statements.

[Anchor]
Ahead of the first trial of perjury teachers, what do you think of this story?

[Sung Chi Hoon]
You made a very natural remark. Even though he made his natural remarks, the People's Power lawmakers seem to be trying to distort the true meaning of Lee Jae-myung's remarks. In fact, the Democratic Party keeps saying that it presses the judiciary on holding outdoor rallies, but what the Democratic Party presses is to pressure the administration. Because the purpose of the outdoor rally is to go out and rally to send a message that the people want it, not the judiciary, but the Korean presidential state has a power structure above the administration. That's why even if the Democratic Party occupies a large number of seats in the legislature, the remarks of the ruling party members can act as pressure on the judiciary. What are the ruling party lawmakers saying now? He's already making all the rulings. I would like to say that such remarks are more inappropriate as to why lawmakers are ruling that this is years of execution and years of imprisonment when they are not even judges. That's why I understand that Chairman Lee Jae-myung has issued a restraining order to the party members to refrain from speaking. That is why I would like to say that even if lawmakers are somewhat dissatisfied with the ruling or distrust of the judiciary, it is necessary to refrain from making such remarks in the future, and that following the party leader's guidelines is the way for Chairman Lee Jae-myung.

[Anchor]
I see. I wonder how the judiciary actually heard about this. First of all, it will be held on the 25th. The first trial of the alleged perjury teacher case was sentenced. Let's first look at what kind of incident this is.

[Song Young Hoon]
The suspicion of perjury teacher stems from the remarks Lee Jae-myung made at a TV debate during the election process for governor of Gyeonggi-do in 2018. He made the remarks in connection with the prosecutor impersonation case of Lee Jae-myung in 2002, and since he is charged with publicizing false information, Lee Jae-myung demanded a certain amount of testimony from the late Seongnam Mayor Kim Byung-ryang and his secretary Kim Jin-sung, who were the counterparts of the prosecutor's impersonation case, and that is why he is now being tried on charges of perjury. However, recordings of four calls, including the call between CEO Lee Jae-myung and Kim Jin-sung in December 2018, have already been released on the Internet. Many viewers may have heard of it, but if you look at it, Kim Jin-sung says he doesn't remember it well because it was old at the time, and he was in the camp to seek re-election of Mayor Kim Byung-ryang, so he says he doesn't know the situation well when there was a prosecutor impersonation call. However, CEO Lee Jae-myung said, "You can just say that you heard that." At the time of the prosecutor's impersonation, there was some consultation between KBS and the late Seongnam Mayor Kim Byung-ryang to drive him as the main culprit, and demanded testimony. Now there will be a ruling next Monday on that.

[Anchor]
You saw it on the screen, on the table, and on the graphic.Ma said, "Representative Lee Jae-myung asked Kim Jin-sung to tell me what he had, and asked me to bring back my memory." That's what the problem is.

[Sung Chi Hoon]
That's right. For the Democratic Party, that call lasts about 30 minutes. I talk about 12 times in a half-hour call. I'm not asking you to lie, I'm asking you to tell me as it is. That's why I kept saying that every two minutes. So, CEO Lee Jae-myung is a legal professional, and he was probably aware that all his calls were recorded at that time. That's why I assume all those things and anticipate the situations, and I think I made a careful call because if I do this, I might face charges. Therefore, I think we need to see the ruling on the 25th to see how the court will view it.

[Anchor]
I see. First of all, the prosecution is the maximum sentence in terms of sentencing standards, and the court, which demanded three years in prison, and rejected the arrest warrant last year, seems to have cleared the perjury teacher charge. How about saying this, what the court said last year, will it affect this trial?

[Song Young Hoon]
The perjury teacher case is very simple. Kim Jin-sung admits that he perjured himself.
And now in Lee Jae-myung's trial, he stated that such false testimony was made due to the pressure of Gyeonggi Province Governor Lee Jae-myung at the time. And the witness report that Kim Jin-sung testified in the case of Lee Jae-myung's violation of the election law and the case in the past remains the same. Then, if you compare the contents of the witness report and the contents of the teacher remaining in the recording file of the call between CEO Lee Jae-myung and Kim Jin-sung, it ends. It's a very simple case. So in September last year, Judge Yoo Chang-hoon, the chief warrant judge of the Seoul Central District Court, also said that the perjury teacher charge appears to be cleared, which is quite unusual. Usually, it is not easy to explicitly use the expression that appears to be clarified at the warrant stage. In that sense, the legal profession sees this case as a high probability of guilt.

[Anchor]
In order to further highlight the reason for the dismissal, I remember saying that it is a vocation, but I dismiss it for this reason. Earlier, CEO Han Dong-hoon mentioned that Lee's arrest in court is also possible. Do you think this is possible? What do you think?

[Sung Chi Hoon]
I don't think it's possible. First of all, I would like to say that there is no precedent, but the power of the people talks about the case of Chung Chan-min in the past. Lawmaker Chung Chan-min was arrested, paroled, and immediately arrested when he was sentenced to prison again. Therefore, I can tell you that it is technically different from the representative case of Lee Jae-myung. The legal profession is also divided on this. Because the situation is different. At that time, it was in the prosecution investigation stage and now it is in the trial stage, so this situation is different, and it was passed during the 21st National Assembly, so isn't it the 22nd generation now? Hasn't the session changed, I think there are probably various interpretations because of these various issues. That's why CEO Han Dong-hoon is also saying that it is his opinion that he can do this without the need for arrest consent because there is a controversy in the legal profession.
We believe that he made such remarks to highlight the judicial risks of Representative Lee Jae-myung and make them an issue.

[Anchor]
So last year, I passed the National Assembly, so I was on the phone at the 21st National Assembly, and the arrest motion, which was later dismissed.E. Whether the arrest agreement is valid so far is linked to the legal detention that CEO Han Dong-hoon said is possible.

[Song Young Hoon]
The reason why this is an issue now is that it was September 22nd when lawmaker Chung Chan-min was arrested in court in September 2022, so he was in the regular session of the National Assembly. Then, don't you think we should send a request for arrest consent back to the National Assembly for a vote when we arrest them? But there was no such procedure, and I just arrested him in court. At that time, lawmaker Chung Chan-min was arrested in September 2021 after the arrest agreement was passed, as Vice Chairman Sung said earlier. Then, he was released on bail and tried without detention. At the same time as the first trial was sentenced, he was arrested in court. The point here is how to view this, whether you think it's just a revocation of the bail permit or whether you think you need to agree to arrest again because it's a re-arrest anyway. So both views seem to be possible at the moment, but there is no clear precedent here. However, what we should read here is that the issue of whether Lee Jae-myung can be arrested in court at the same time as the sentence of the perjury teacher case itself is proof that the possibility of Lee Jae-myung's imprisonment is considerable. I think we need to keep in mind this part.

[Anchor]
I see. In the meantime, representative Lee Jae-myung was convicted in the first trial of the election law violation. In this regard, the results of the poll came out. Gallup came out today and the results of the NBS investigation came out yesterday. First of all, if you look at today's, the ruling was a legitimate ruling and came out to 43%. It was unreasonable political oppression by 42 percent. In the NBS survey, 49 percent of the respondents said it was appropriate and wrong. 41%. A little bit justified, proper, this figure is ahead, but it doesn't seem to make much difference. How did you like it?

[Sung Chi Hoon]
First of all, the Korean people tend to trust the judiciary rather than the politics, the legislature, or the administration. That's why many people don't enjoy saying that this is wrong about the outcome of the judiciary's trial, so the fact that it came out to be half and half like that means that it was a fair ruling for the people to look at this trial or a crackdown on the opposition leader. That's why I'd like to say that the Democratic Party's supporters might have answered like that, but I'd like to say that not only party supporters but also ordinary citizens think that Lee's ruling on the Public Official Election Act is too much. Perhaps the people are. This is considered legally, and it is not considered legally that the evidence is adopted, but whether it is okay to sentence representative Lee Jae-myung under the overall picture, so it is about half of the public's view that such a general view was excessive. I think it can be seen like this.

[Song Young Hoon]
In the low NBS survey conducted regularly by four pollsters, about half of the respondents said it was an appropriate ruling, and the response that it was a wrong ruling is much different than that, isn't it? If so, even in the court of public opinion, which representative Lee Jae-myung does not like, representative Lee Jae-myung is now considered guilty by the people. However, I think that the fact that the response of the wrong ruling or unfair political oppression is still around 40 percent is an unfortunate aspect of the politicization of the judiciary that the Democratic Party has continued to influence. However, if the trend of political circles that induces the politicization of the judiciary continues, our society will be deeply damaged. However, I would like to say that if a really responsible public party continues to divide the people like that and furthermore, the form of leading the judiciary as if it were an area of majority vote should be avoided.

[Anchor]
I see. But the focus on the perjury teacher case trial this time is on whether it will affect the next presidential election or not, but isn't this time the key is whether or not more than the safe will come out?

[Sung Chi Hoon]
That's right. This means that if a sentence of more than 1 million won is sentenced and sentenced to prison, the right to run for election is effectively deprived. So, representative Lee Jae-myung will not be able to appear in the next presidential election. That's why all the results of the trial that are out now, of course, are only done when the Supreme Court has been confirmed. Just because it came out more than 1 million won in the first trial and a prison sentence in the first trial does not mean that the election cannot be held immediately, but because representative Lee Jae-myung's political problems are life-threatening when the Supreme Court is confirmed, that's why attention is paid to such things as how much will come out even if he is guilty, whether he will be sentenced to prison or fined.

[Anchor] I think I should keep asking Vice Chairman
Sung, but former Democratic Party lawmaker Seol Hoon said this. If there is a deprivation of the right to run for election, the representative position should be laid down. How did you hear this opinion?

[Sung Chi Hoon]
First of all, former lawmaker Seol Hoon left the Democratic Party of Korea. He's in another party right now. I don't think it's appropriate to evaluate such a person as having this voice from the screaming world. I would like to reiterate that it seems inappropriate for someone who left the party to make such a statement about the operation of our party. Other than former lawmaker Seol Hoon, I don't think the status of the party leader and such things will be shaken even if other non-lawmakers or non-lawmakers make such remarks. Because it's not the remarks of non-congressors and the movements of non-congressors that can decide that, but the party and the hearts of the people. That's why I want to tell you that the people can only decide whether or not to continue their support for representative Lee Jae-myung after the results of the trial come out by looking at the indicators, and that they have to resign already.

[Song Young Hoon]
Former lawmaker Seol Hoon left the Democratic Party of Korea, but he seems to love the Democratic Party very deeply. Because hasn't Lee Jae-myung already been sentenced to a 10-year restriction on the right to run for election in a case of violation of the election law? And the trend in court practice these days is a firm trend to go to the second trial and not change the sentence of the first trial carelessly. Then, if the 6-3-3 principle is firmly adhered to, the time for Lee Jae-myung and the Democratic Party to be together will be six months at the most. Rather than causing great confusion when breaking up with Chairman Lee Jae-myung six months later, it is actually helpful for the future of the Democratic Party of Korea to find a new way by breaking up with Chairman Lee Jae-myung from now on. In that sense, I hope that the Democratic Party will not listen closely to former lawmaker Seol Hoon's advice, but that the person who has been with the Democratic Party for a long time is still giving affectionate advice.

[Anchor]
I see. That's how much attention is being paid to the first trial ruling of the perjury teacher on the 25th. The Democratic Party is also foreshadowing an outdoor rally tomorrow. But this is where the blue ban was imposed. What is this?

[Sung Chi Hoon]
That's right. Since our party's symbolic color is blue, there are many people who come to the rally wearing blue clothes or jumpers. Let's refrain from such things, and in fact, flags come out like that. In the case of flags, it is usually a regional committee flag. It's a flag that people from different regions gather under the flag. When we hold such rallies, because we use some roads, not all roads, these flags could damage the cars and the operation that are passing by, and if the people feel that this is an event unique to the Democratic Party of Korea, Kim Gun-hee's independent counsel law may say that this is a Democratic Party event and not participate in it, so let's exclude blue clothes and take it as a character that can be shared with the people as much as possible. As far as I know, there was a guideline saying, "Let's not raise the flag."

[Anchor]
Seo Beom-soo, secretary-general of the People's Power, said this. It is trying to make it look like a lot of ordinary citizens participated by turning party members into ordinary people.

[Sung Chi Hoon]
Aren't opposition supporters ordinary citizens in the eyes of Secretary-General Seo Bum-soo? I would like to say that you need to change your view of the opposition party as an enemy. However, in the end, from the perspective of ordinary citizens or non-Democratic Party members, it is not a matter of whether or not they are wearing blue clothes, but how many people are gathered. That's why I'd like to say that I'm very sorry for the negative comments that say, "How much people can be judged to gather at this rally and the upcoming rally?" [Anchor] Blue clothes ban, party flag ban, how did you see it?

[Song Young Hoon]
I have to tell you what I said. As you saw in the video a while ago, isn't the blue color noticeable at that outdoor rally? In fact, if about 17,000 people gather at that rally, there will be 17,000 people if about 100 people per 170 Democratic lawmakers come together. When 25,000 people gather, 170 people come together to 150 people per person, and it becomes 25,000 people. In other words, the majority of those people there are either Democrats or Democratic officials. There is very little voluntary union of ordinary citizens. As I can see that at a glance, the Democratic Party of Korea is now trying to deceive the people by telling them not to wear blue clothes. By the way, what is the situation at this assembly now? Lee Jae-myung was convicted of lying on the 15th. In order to cover up what he was guilty of by telling the lie, he held an outdoor rally the next day, and people dressed in blue gathered around him. And what will you be sentenced for next Monday? I'm getting a verdict now for making someone tell me to lie. In such a situation, it is also falsely deceived to make it appear that it is a voluntary union of the general public. Then all of this is a series of lies. I say that it's time for the Democratic Party to break this chain of lies.

[Anchor]
I see. I think we need to pay attention to the color of tomorrow's rally. I think we should talk about representative Cho Kuk for a moment. The sentence of appeal was scheduled for the 12th of next month. He was indicted on charges of corruption in children's entrance exams and the Blue House's inspection and cover-up of inspections, and was sentenced to two years in prison in both the first and second trials, but this is because spokesman Song is a lawyer. Is there a possibility that the Supreme Court will change the verdict?

[Song Young Hoon]
Objectively, it's very thin. Because I'm not saying this because we're representatives of other parties, but if you look at the 2024 judicial inspiration, there are statistics about the criminal trial in the Supreme Court in 2023. In 2023, only 281 criminal cases were destroyed and returned by the Supreme Court all year round. However, among them, only 217 cases were destroyed among the cases that the defendant and the prosecutor appealed or only the defendant appealed. Then, in the second trial, he was sentenced to prison without probation, and only 138 cases were destroyed. So, didn't CEO Cho Kuk come here after being sentenced to two years in prison until the second trial? The number of such cases being destroyed and returned by the Supreme Court itself is objectively significantly low. Just by looking at those statistics, it is very likely that the sentence will be confirmed on December 12th. It seems like this.

[Anchor]
I see. If a sentence of imprisonment or higher is confirmed, the right to run for election will be deprived for five years.

[Sung Chi Hoon]
is correct. Currently, representative Lee Jae-myung usually ranks first in the opposition's approval rating for the next presidential candidate, but there are many surveys where representative Cho Kuk comes next. Therefore, from the opposition camp's point of view, there is another part of losing the opposition's second-place candidate, and there is a symbolism that Chairman Cho Kuk has in the Cho Kuk Innovation Party. He is not just one of the 12 lawmakers, but he has a very high presence and symbolism, so he seems to be predicting that there will be many difficulties in running the Cho Kuk Innovation Party in the future, losing such a big existence and running the party.

[Anchor]
This is the last topic. Representative Han Dong-hoon has expressed his position on the controversy over the party's bulletin board, but the controversy seems to be hardly abating. Let's hear the related remarks first.

[Han Dong-hoon / Representative of People's Power (21st): Since the party has announced legal action, if there is an offense, it will be thoroughly investigated and the truth will be revealed. However, the reason why my case does not respond at a very important time when there are many issues related to people's livelihoods is the party leader's judgment that it is not appropriate to cover up other issues.. ]

[Kang Myung-gu / Member of the People's Power] (SBS Radio 'Kim Tae-hyun's Political Show'): You know the part where public opinion was manipulated by stealing names. There's a content that creates public opinion. In that short moment, whenever there is an issue with only that name, there is something that comes out and comes out. Why is this a problem now? It's a situation where it's spreading more and more. That's why I'm telling you. Since we can't fall into the middle of self-destruction, the party leader can quickly show leadership here and solve this problem. ]

[Anchor]
As you just heard, pro-Yoon-gye is still demanding a party audit. In particular, former Supreme Council member Jang Ye-chan is mentioning Han's political life, but the controversy over the party's bulletin board has not gone away.

[Song Young Hoon]
I think it is necessary to think deeply about what the people will think about this issue of party bulletin boards being seen as the most important issue in the ruling party now. Isn't politics a skill of priority? In fact, political parties, people, time and resources are all limited. All political parties have good words in their platform policies, but isn't that the identity of what they actually use budget and time and these things first? There are many urgent issues to be resolved in the passport now. There are a lot. Some may wonder that this issue is being treated as if it is the most important issue in the ruling party, but in fact, ordinary people who live a busy daily life, not political high-ranking officials, are not showing such deep interest in it, and in fact, it seems to have priority. For example, the big opposition party is continuing to fight outside to cover up the lies of Chairman Lee Jae-myung, pressuring the judiciary, and even trying to fix the law at all now that he is convicted. Isn't it important to reveal falsehoods about these things as they are and inform the people? Also, since he is the ruling party before that, there are a lot of tasks to solve and focus on people's livelihoods and the economy. It is difficult for me to personally understand how the people will see that they seem to have all of those things behind them. Considering this, it is actually difficult for me to understand the situation where they seem to be so preoccupied with the issue of the party bulletin board.

[Anchor]
So CEO Han Dong-hoon also said, "The reason why Keon Gun does not respond like this is because it is feared to cover up other issues." Anyway, regardless of the party audit, the police have now applied for the preservation of the party's bulletin board server, and there are predictions that it will lead to a forced investigation soon.

[Sung Chi Hoon]
There is a high possibility that it will happen, and I agree with spokesman Song a hundred times. Is it time for the ruling party to do this? Is it when you're fighting over the issue of the party bulletin board? Then, even if CEO Han Dong-hoon does not go to the police investigation, he can solve it in 5 minutes even if he does not audit the party. You can call your suspected family members and ask them if they have written. And if you ask us to agree to your personal information, we'll just check that. I checked CEO Han Dong-hoon's, but didn't you say no because the family has to protect personal information? This is the problem with dragging out what can be checked in about 5 minutes and not doing it. In fact, even if it was true in moderation, I think it was just revealed and the family did it. It was a problem that I could have apologized and moved on, but the golden time has already passed because it took too long. And former Supreme Council member Jang Ye-chan is analyzing this too hard, and the problem now is that not only the People's Power Party bulletin board, but also similar articles have been posted on the Internet community. From that point of view, I would like to say that the golden time has passed to solve this problem on its own because it is not just a problem for the party, but it can even go to the problem of manipulating public opinion.

[Anchor]
I see. We'll stop listening to you two today. Song Young-hoon, spokesman for the People's Power, and Sung Chi-hoon, vice chairman of the Democratic Party's Policy Committee. Thank you both.