[Politics ON] Hey, pressuring the independent counsel law with the "impeachment of acting Han" ring...Woman "Impeachment hostage crisis"

■ Host: Youngsoo Kim anchor
■ Appearance: Kim Hyung-joon, chair professor at Bae Jae-dae, head of InSight K Research Center, Bae Jong-chan

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN NewsON] when quoting.

[Anchor]
Again today, the ruling and opposition parties are engaged in a fierce battle over the impeachment of acting Han Deok-soo and whether to accept the special prosecution.

Attention is also being paid to the actions of the ruling and opposition parties and the presidential election campers with early presidential elections in mind.

Political On, who looks into the outside and inside of politics, today we will be joined by Kim Hyung-joon, chair professor of Bae Jae-dae, and Bae Jong-chan, director of Insight K Research Institute. Please come in.

Politicians who need to settle the confusion are continuing the 'strong and strong' confrontation. The impeachment process seems to be becoming more confusing. First of all, let's hear the voices of floor leader Park Chan-dae and floor leader Kwon Sung-dong and start the conversation in earnest today.

[Park Chan-dae / Floor Leader of the Democratic Party of Korea: If Prime Minister Han Deok-soo does not promulgate the independent counsel law by the 24th, the Democratic Party will be held sternly responsible immediately. I'll go through the process immediately. It has already been 20 days since the December 3 Yoon Suk Yeol civil war broke out. The rebellion leader was suspended due to impeachment, but was still not arrested or arrested. Prime Minister Han Deok-soo should give up acting as an independent counsel, immediately request the recommendation of candidates for the permanent special prosecution, and promulgate the Insurrection Special Prosecutor Act and the Kim Gun-hee Special Prosecutor Act. The delay in the investigation of civil war and the impeachment trial process is an extension of civil war and an act of plotting a second civil war. ]

[Kwon Seong-dong / People's Power Floor Leader and Acting Party Leader: Ask the opposition. Are you going to impeach acting president Han Deok-soo as acting president or prime minister? The impeachment of the prime minister is an impeachment hostage that puts a knife on the acting president's neck and stabs him if the Democratic Party does not do what it wants. If the Democratic Party thought it had enough reasons to impeach Prime Minister Han Deok-soo, it should have proposed the impeachment of the Prime Minister then. It doesn't make sense to use the impeachment inquiry now that you wrote it then. ]

[Anchor]
The Democratic Party of Korea asked acting representative Han to promulgate the Special Prosecutor for Insurrection and the Special Prosecutor's Act for Kim Gun-hee by tomorrow. There's only one day left. The Prime Minister's Office said that the independent counsel is difficult because it is necessary to agree with the ruling and opposition parties and the government. So do you think the next step is for Democrats to impeach?

[KIM HYEONGJUN]
We need to see what decision we will make first, but it's hard to understand that the floor leader Park Chan-dae should make a decision by tomorrow. Because there's something designated by law. It's due on January 1st, so it doesn't matter if you make a decision within it.

[Anchor]
You've already passed the plenary session and the exercise of the right to request reconsideration is until January 1st, right?

[KIM HYEONGJUN]
That's right. If so, it should follow the legal guarantees in the process. If floor leader Park Chan-dae ignores it and does not promulgate it by the 24th, it is anti-constitutional in a big way. Aren't there guarantees in the Constitution? You're ignoring the things that are guaranteed in the law, aren't you? In this respect, I think that the Democratic Party of Korea is in a hurry. If you go further and have power, you can use your power at will? President Yoon Suk Yeol has come to this point by declaring a really ridiculous emergency martial law with power. From that point of view, they also have to comply with the correct legal procedures. Otherwise, I don't know how it will be evaluated by the people if they say they will use their power unconditionally just because they have power.

The other is acting Han Deok-soo at this point. For example, impeaching during the prime minister and, at this point, if you are an acting president, you can say that you will prosecute the impeachment with the prime minister's. When people ask why the Democratic Party is driving in such a way, I think the Democratic Party should control its breathing on this part because it has no choice but to suspect that it was done to speed up the impeachment clock.

[Anchor]
You made this judgment that it's hasty. Representative Lee Jae-myung pressed against the special prosecution, saying that it is a rebellion that interferes with the investigation. On the other hand, floor leader Kwon Sung-dong criticizes the impeachment hostage. What do you think, Bae?

[Bae Jong Chan]
Then, is there any way to resolve this situation? It's very frustrating. Economic and cultural aspects create content as much as they want. Then, isn't the current situation an emergency? Then, it is the time of the Constitutional Court, the responsibility of the acting government, and the role of the National Assembly must be coordinated, mediated, and consulted, but what the Democratic Party of Korea should never do is pressure beyond the Constitution and laws. You shouldn't put pressure on it. But the thing that I kept emphasizing throughout our time is that any action has to have a content and a schedule. Then acting Han Deok-soo can talk. I will process it on the 31st because January 1st is the legal time to review the bill at the Cabinet meeting. You just have to reveal the schedule. Then you shouldn't press or be ambiguous. Then, you have to talk about the schedule, such as when the recommendation of the Constitutional Court will be done, and then roughly between the 29th and the 30th. What foreign investors see as the most uncertain thing about us is that we don't have a schedule. You need to talk about the schedule accurately. I'll tell you later.President Ma of Yoon Suk Yeol also has a schedule to ask something at the Constitutional Court, doesn't he? Or isn't there a schedule that the investigative agency asks about? You just have to answer. There is no time for an answer right now. Then, I will answer between the 27th and 29th. The reason is for what. What I always say is that everything in the world has its contents and schedule. Why isn't our politics there? So if you reveal the content and schedule, it's a problem because you don't do this.

[Anchor]
In the case of investigations related to allegations of rebellion, the prosecution investigation, the police investigation, the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit, and the competition to secure recruits are not going well. So, I think I'm doing everything I can think of that there is a need for an investigation center that can be unified and integrated comprehensively through an independent counsel.

[KIM HYEONGJUN]
That's right. So, as you said, the most important thing is not to reveal the schedule. According to the Constitution and law, it is supposed to be done by December 31st, so what is the need to disclose the schedule? Don't you expect two cabinet meetings to be held on their own judgment? You know that we're going to announce it then. Can't you put up with that? For example, isn't today the 23rd? And even if we talk until the 31st, isn't it the 23rd? Today. Can't we wait for a week? What kind of results will come out. That doesn't mean the Prime Minister is breaking the law now, does it? We have to respect what we do in accordance with the procedures set. And then what the story is about is the next story. Why is the emergency martial law a problem now? In the end, wasn't it a problem because it didn't comply with the constitution and laws? But while criticizing it, they press and enforce what is set in accordance with the Constitution and laws? Is that right? In that sense, the Democratic Party keeps making hasty judgments.

Another thing is that if an acting president is impeached, it will be controversial whether it will be a majority of the incumbent members during the prime minister's term, or more than two-thirds of the president since he is an acting president, right? There are parts that can make the situation even worse. Shouldn't we think about the issue of foreign credibility? If the U.S. government said it supports acting Han Deok-soo, the Democratic Party of Korea said it should create a national stability consultative body. On the 26th, the ruling-opposition government council will be in operation, and on the other hand, the government said that it should set up a national stability council. On the other side, it doesn't make sense to impeach the acting president, does it? I think the Democratic Party needs to be very careful about its future moves because it can be criticized for what the truth is. Is this a crime of rebellion or not, it's not that problem. How can you say that one side is right and the other is wrong when you don't follow the Constitution and laws?

[Anchor]
There must be a reason why the Democratic Party is pressuring like this. President Yoon is not responding to the investigation related to the civil war. The Democratic Party of Korea seems to be putting more pressure on it because it is not receiving documents for the impeachment trial. Breaking news just came in. I'll sort it out for you for a moment. Lawyer Seok Dong-hyun, who is involved in the formation of Yoon Suk Yeol's presidential lawyers, expressed various positions at a meeting with reporters as previously mentioned. First of all, the president expressed his opinion that the impeachment trial process takes precedence over the investigation. First of all, I'm about to be summoned on the 25th, but I think it can be an answer to this. He expressed his position that the impeachment trial process takes precedence over the investigation.

Regarding the preparation date for the first hearing on the 27th, the Constitutional Court said today that it will proceed as scheduled for the first hearing on the 27th, but it also said that the proceedings are unreasonable. At the same time, he said that the impeachment trial applies mutatis mutandis to criminal proceedings, but the characteristics are different. President Yoon also said that the crime of rebellion will be resolved during the impeachment trial. At the same time, the president's position came out that he expressed his frustration with impeachment and presidential frustration with martial law. Let me point it out for a second. The president expressed his position. I think the impeachment trial process takes precedence over the investigation now. And the preparation date for the first hearing on the 27th is too much. In this regard, opposition parties point out that President Yoon is dragging his feet. How do you see it?

[Bae Jong Chan]
That's possible. The opposition party will recognize the impeachment trial as a public opinion battle. And the president's allegations of civil war are clear. Then there will be no reason to drag your feet here. The Constitutional Court dealt with this quickly, and it was two months for President Roh Moo Hyun and three months for President Park Geun Hye. Rather, if the allegations of rebellion are clear, the Democratic Party will judge that there is no reason for it to be longer than when Roh Moo Hyun was president. So, if it goes to the early presidential election, it will be a regime change and it cannot be concluded, but the Democratic Party can judge that representative Lee Jae-myung will be advantageous in various aspects. However, what is the difference in temperature at all? For President Yoon Suk Yeol, this is not a public opinion, but a legal war, and what the investigative agency is investigating is an allegation of rebellion.

Anchor Kim knows the charge of rebellion, but if it is admitted, it will be sentenced to death or life imprisonment. If so, this will inevitably be a serious reason for impeachment anyway. If so, whether the Constitutional Court dismisses or cites the impeachment of the president should go directly to the charge of rebellion. Rather, if this is a serious standard in the Constitutional Court, this is a legal war and this legal battle should be very long, it is a long-term war. I'll step on it step by step. This is why the view of the Democratic Party and the view of President Yoon Suk Yeol are completely different in terms of time.

[Anchor]
Professor Kim Hyung-joon, how did you see the presidential office's position today? I think the impeachment trial process takes precedence over the investigation. And they say that the preparation date for the first hearing on the 27th is too much.

[KIM HYEONGJUN]
If the Constitutional Court judged today that it was served on the 20th, wouldn't it normally give a period of 20 days according to criminal proceedings? But I think they're saying that it's too much for what they did on the 27th. I think it's like this right now. The Democratic Party is very accused of rebellion. In conclusion, don't people who opposed impeachment for example move with the fact that Yoon Suk Yeol is a rebellion and that it is a rebellion conspiracy? But who judges whether it's a civil war or not? It's the court's decision. But how can Democrats say they are categorically a civil war? I think they're raising a question about that. In the end, the first thing to do is to reveal that it is not a civil war during the impeachment trial. If that happens, the investigation can put a shield on the investigation because the investigation is now booked as a suspect for rebellion. So, it can only be interpreted to mean that everything is being prepared in relation to this civil war. The part that the president sees.

Then, what can convince the people is that the president said he would stand up to whether it was an investigation or impeachment. Is this confident, for example, because the Constitutional Court refuses various impeachment documents now, if there are parts where the Constitutional Court says it will be delivered on the 20th, you have to tell me why it is so late. For example, I don't think it will be easy to set up a defense team. Wasn't the reason for impeachment during the Park Geun Hye presidency related to Choi Soon-sil's manipulation of state affairs? This time, since the reason for impeachment is related to the crime of rebellion, I don't think it's easy for lawyers to defend someone accused of rebellion. So, I have to talk about a number of problems, including the composition of the lawyers, but they refuse to receive it and give me a feeling that there will be a delay. Of course, I'm trying to delay the trial and ask if it's going in a different way, but if I do an independent counsel, it can be faster, so all investigations become special prosecutors and are concentrated on one side, right? Since it can be unified, new facts emerge from it, and there are many parts that can be used as evidence in the impeachment trial, so the Democratic Party is pressuring for this special prosecutor. It can be interpreted that the president implies not to conclude that it is a civil war.

[Anchor]
What do you think President Yoon should do? The investigation into President Yoon's alleged rebellion is ongoing, and all of them have been arrested. However, President Yoon said he would take political and legal responsibility, and he said he would do it confidently. If you look at the position of the president of Yoon Suk Yeol and the investigation of the detained commanders, it is too different. There is no specific position on that.

[Bae Jong Chan]
I think we need to divide it into two. To conclude first, I think President Yoon Suk Yeol needs to actively respond to the schedule of the Constitutional Court. I think that's the president's responsibility and duty. Investigation can be different. But the Constitutional Court does not determine criminal punishment here. However, the Constitutional Court judges whether or not it can maintain the position of president. At least, the investigation is related to criminal punishment by President Yoon Suk Yeol, so we have to respond and we can respond from the perspective of President Yoon Suk Yeol. The Constitutional Court is preparing the schedule fairly and according to the law of the Constitutional Court. At least I think that President Yoon Suk Yeol needs to actively respond and participate in this and respond.

[Anchor]
Let's continue to drag on related issues. After President Yoon's impeachment bill was passed by the National Assembly on December 14, Yeouido was reeling from the possibility of an early presidential election. In this regard, Lee Joon-seok, a member of the New Reform Party, will have the right to run for president from April next year, and he said this in a radio interview today. Let's start after listening to an interview with Lee Joon-seok, a member of the New Reform Party.

[Lee Jun-seok / New Reform Party Member (YTN Radio 'News Fighting'): (The trash car is coming and the excrement car is coming)] If we say this, I think both camps will be a little noisy. Who is the garbage truck and who is the excrement car? ) The situation of the Yoon Suk Yeol government is expressed as a garbage car. I hope it's not the manure tea that comes next. So you have to be a better person, not a bad person. I said it like this, but I didn't specify anyone. In fact, Lee Jae-myung's refusal to receive the documents to the court is trying to delay such things to make them bulletproof. (The excrement car never refers to a specific person, right? But I guess it reminds you of a lot of people. ]

[Anchor]
I think Lee Joon-seok actually wants to run for president. We're talking about a lot of things. However, there are many stories about the garbage truck and the excrement truck coming. How did you see it?

[KIM HYEONGJUN]
I think it's a glimpse that you want to come out on your own because you're eligible when you're over 40 years old. But Rep. Lee Joon-seok is light. At the very least, what about excreta cars and garbage cars? So you try to increase your presence through provocative terms. It's not just this time. Countless parts...politics is done not by words, but by the heart. In that sense, he's very careful with every word he says. The president of the United States who did that best is President Obama. I wonder if President Obama can use words that connect emotionally in many ways. If you look at our political circles recently, I think the dignity of words, not just rude words, is inevitably completely inferior.

The other thing is this vicious cycle. When I talk about garbage cars and excrement cars, all the media report on this, so I think I can have the wrong idea that the media are interested in it if I say something more stimulating over and over again. Whether a garbage truck or a excrement truck comes, how will you do politics about yourself, and what will you do if I do politics? I'll do it in this part. I always tell you what I lack the most in politics, but you have to use a lot of positive language, no matter what the situation is. In that way, many people want decent politics from the people, so I think we should consider the situation when Rep. Lee Joon-seok deeply reflects on this and goes further.

[Anchor]
I see. Thank you very much.

Recently, there is a poll showing various changes regarding the ruling party's Jamryong, so let's listen to the analysis since you are both poll experts. According to the Gallup poll, the question of who you think is the best president for the future came out last Friday, with 37% of the Democratic Party's representative Lee Jae-myung. Former CEO Han Dong-hoon is 5%, and Daegu Mayor Hong Joon Pyo is 5%. Former representative Cho Kuk 3%, Oh Se-hoon 2%, Kim Moon-soo 2%, Lee Joon-seok 2%, Yoo Seung Min 2%, and Ahn Cheol Soo 1%. Among the power of the people, former CEO Han Dong-hoon fell to 5%. That's why Hong Joon Pyo and Oh Se-hoon are joining the market. How should I read the poll that just came out?

[Bae Jong Chan]
It's an impeachment trial. In other words, the preference for future political leaders you see on the screen is the current state of the next presidential election, right now. The four letters that we can describe here are Lee Bu Yeo-chim. It can also be explained by the ear canal. Chairman Lee Jae-myung has emerged with a large amount of political reflexes, and the next candidates for the ruling party and conservative party are in a slump. This is the result of the investigation that reflects this situation. To point out one thing, former representative Han Dong-hoon competed with Lee Jae-myung just around the time of the general election. However, through the so-called march of hardship such as Yoon Han-gal, and as if being chased as a former representative, his competitiveness was substantially eroded. In fact, although it does not appear in the graph in the survey, Hong Joon Pyo 18 and Han Dong-hoon 16. It can be seen that Han Dong-hoon, who was expected and hoped to be unrivalled in the power of the people, has weakened his competitiveness considerably since he passed the impeachment motion. On the other hand, conservative candidates are judged to have no candidate to stand up to Lee Jae-myung right now, but on the other hand, the Democratic Party's approval rating is 48 percent in the survey. However, representative Lee Jae-myung's approval rating is also 37%. Why didn't all the supporters of the Democratic Party come in? I wonder if 11 percentage points didn't come in. Considering that this is 100% of the total, this is inevitably a matter of consideration for CEO Lee Jae-myung. In addition, it did not flow deep even in the 20s and 30s and the middle class. When interpreting this in general, isn't it a trial risk? As a result, even though this part is in the impeachment phase, the key is how representative Lee Jae-myung will shake it off.

[KIM HYEONGJUN]
It didn't appear in the preference for future political leaders, but that's a free response. It's not because I read it to you, but because it's a free response. What's the percentage of the non-response? It's 35 percent. It's quite high. From this table, there is no controversy about Lee Jae-myung's representative solo system.

[Anchor]
There are also reports of the fall of ruling party runners.

[KIM HYEONGJUN]
It's possible. But as you said, the party's approval rating is 48%, but it is said to be 37%. What happened in a similar situation in 2016 was that it was almost the same as Ban Ki-moon outside with Moon Jae In candidate at the time. Even if President Park Geun Hye was impeached. So, at the time of being inside, the Saenuri Party candidates were that low. The part I'm interested in isn't coming out of that survey right now, but how many percent do you think it's from the non-partisan group? The Democratic Party is 48 percent now. Twenty-four percent is the power of the people. The percentage of the shaman group was 21%. in the Gallup Korea survey How much do you think CEO Lee Jae-myung's preference for me will come out of the shamanic group? It's 7%. And Han Dong-hoon went further and came out at 6%. As many as 73% of the non-partisan group did not answer. That means that it is Lee Jae-myung's solo system, but if you look at the contents, there are still undecided undecided undecided voters, and there are parts that can fluctuate depending on how the situation unfolds in the future. Shouldn't that much of it be seen as the power of the people who are almost in ruins, not unusual in a way? It's almost impossible to get a vote for that potential candidate there. I think how to lead this sustainably in the future is a key issue for the Democratic Party of Korea.

[Anchor]
Thank you. Let's talk about the last issue.

The NEC's banner standards have been at the center of the controversy in politics. When the NEC refused to post a banner saying Lee Jae-myung should not be allowed, the people's power protested, asking if the NEC was conducting a pre-election campaign for Lee Jae-myung. Let's hear the voice of Kim Yong-bin, secretary-general of the NEC.

[Jo Eun-hee / People's Power: A banner saying "civil war criminal" is fine and Lee Jae-myung should not be allowed. I said three times that I can't do the banner. The reason is that the possibility of early presidential election has increased and representative Lee Jae-myung is perceived as a presidential candidate, which could be a pre-election campaign for the purpose of losing the election. ]

[Kim Yong-bin / Secretary-General of the National Election Commission: Overall, I think it's too early to make a decision. Before the impeachment decision, placards such as Jae-myung, let's go to prison, were allowed because they were within the realm of freedom of political expression. I think the answer to the question came out like that because I judged only on the provisions of the pre-election campaign. As an urgent matter, I will make a resolution of the Committee to reveal to you the criteria for authoritative interpretation. ]

[Anchor]
There was even a controversy over the rejection of the banner.

[KIM HYEONGJUN]
Looking at the Central Election Commission, the idea itself is very unique. That presupposes two things. First of all, it is premised on the premise of an early presidential election. Therefore, since it is an early presidential election, Lee Jae-myung is the likely presidential candidate to appear in the election in the future, so there is a part that it becomes a pre-election campaign. The second is based on the premise that representative Lee Jae-myung can appear in the presidential election in any case, right? After the first trial of the election law, according to the 633 principle, you don't know what the conclusion will come out by May, but it's like it's a fait accompli. On the premise of that, I was the president of the Korean Election Association for a long time after seeing that he disapproved like that. It's not the central election committee I've known so far. The Central Election Commission is an independent constitutional body. However, if you keep showing something inclined toward a specific force, independence and autonomy will inevitably be undermined. The problem is that it's not just this time. It was like that in 2021, and it was like that in 2020, and I kept saying that I can't fight against others and that I don't allow it because it's hypocrisy. So what kind of joke was that the Central Election Commission admitted that the Democratic Party of Korea was an opposition party and hypocrisy. It's hard to understand why we keep falling into this kind of controversy, and I think we need to do things very carefully and fairly so that we can regain our status as an independent constitutional institution once again.

[Anchor]
Today, the NEC said it would decide the early morning, and said it would also reveal the exact criteria for the interpretation of the vote through an emergency agenda meeting in the afternoon. I think

[Bae Jong-chan]
should tell you. Central election control is difficult. Because it's already a banner pollution. How many people would welcome the banner in every neighborhood? The National Election Commission should start with that poll quickly. In order to further guarantee the people's right to know and political freedom, we are setting clear standards for banners. However, we have no choice but to interpret it politically. I think I should do it like this. Give them all freedom or regulate them all. If the standard setting is hung on the nose, if you hang it on the nose, it will inevitably become an earring. I think it will be difficult to control due to the political climate of our country. Then there is only one way. Let's allow everything and the people decide. And if this affects someone's honor or legal interests, then we have no choice but to go to a legal lawsuit or trial. Control of the Central Election Commission seems difficult.

[Anchor]
It's an independent organization of the Central Election Commission. The political circles of the ruling and opposition parties should not be shaken. You said you'd reveal the exact criteria for authoritative interpretation, so we'll see how it comes out.

Thank you. That's all for today's politics.

He was joined by Kim Hyung-joon, chair professor of Bae Jae-dae, and Bae Jong-chan, head of InSight K Research Institute. Thank you.