President Yoon is virtually absent...Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit "I'll be waiting longer".

■ Host: Anchor Kim Jeong-jin, anchor Jang Won-seok
■ Appearance: Kim Hyung-joo, former Democratic Party lawmaker, Shin Ji-ho, Vice-President of Strategic Planning for People's Power

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN Newswide] when quoting.

[Anchor]
The Joint Investigation Headquarters asked President Yoon Suk Yeol to attend as a suspect, but it is well past the appointment time of 10 a.m.

The Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit is considering whether to send a third request for attendance or to secure a recruit with an arrest warrant. Today, let's look at the contents with Shin Ji-ho, the Vice-President of the People's Power Strategy Planning Department, and Kim Hyung-joo, a former Democratic Party lawmaker. Welcome.

I was told to be investigated at 10 o'clock today, but it's been well over 2 hours. What do you think is the reason why President Yoon is strongly expressing his intention not to attend?

[Shin Jiho]
First of all, it seems a little difficult to form a defense team itself. It doesn't seem to be going smoothly. Once a defense team is formed, the impeachment trial process will also be dealt with, but it seems to be not working. President Yoon is saying that it's not a job shortage.From what I heard, President Yoon graduated from law school and worked as a prosecutor for 26 years. There must be a lot of legal professionals around, but there are no lawyers who are willing to take care of them.

So, the first reason is that all procedures are being delayed because the formation of the defense team is not possible. Second, President Yoon will confidently deal with impeachment or investigation. I made a public statement like this, but I think the attitude at that time has changed a little bit from now. It was a kind of promise made in front of the people, but it seems that they are not responding to the summons of the investigative agency because they are not keeping it properly, and there is a change of heart.

[Anchor]
So far, President Yoon has given various reasons. Investigative agencies are so competitively dispersed that they are investigating. The defense team has not yet been set up, it is early because it has not been long since it has been prosecuted. What do you think of him not attending like that?

[Kim Hyung-joo]
It's against what you're saying. In any case, he expressed his willingness to attend, whether it was an investigation or impeachment, but Representative Shin just said.Is there a change in your mind or is it necessary to build up logic to endure? In that respect, it seems to be moving strategically now. However, compared to the two former presidents who were impeached, there are criticisms that they can be criticized considerably, and that they are not in good shape within the People's Power Party.

So, first of all, concerns began to emerge that the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit would wait until the afternoon. Because send a 3rd notice, or what's the next step? In the end, such a procedure in which a person is led through a physical fight with an arrest warrant, a bodyguard, and an arrest warrant, no matter how present you are, will never be able to show good performance in front of the people no matter how much you are.

[Anchor]
President Yoon's side is now saying that they will respond in order. We prepared a recording. Let's listen closely and continue. On President Yoon's side, the Constitutional Court's impeachment hearing comes first and then the investigative agency will investigate it. Therefore, the impeachment trial takes precedence over the investigation. I think you said this now. How do you see it?

[Shin Jiho]
The president may have made such a judgment, but the president does not have the authority to make that judgment. In the case of the impeachment trial, it is the respondent's judgment because the impeachment was prosecuted. Next, the crime of rebellion or abuse of authority, in this case, he is a suspect. Since he is booked as a suspect, no matter how much the presidential status is maintained now, the president does not determine the authority to judge which comes first in that status. However, I think I can express my opinion. I can express my opinion, but I think there will be a debate among lawyers.

First of all, isn't it right to proceed with the impeachment trial first and then proceed with criminal proceedings? There can be things like this, and let's do it at the same time. No, rather, the Constitutional Court does not have an investigative function or anything to clearly determine whether or not it is a crime of rebellion in the impeachment trial, so the investigation should proceed faster and the actual truth should be revealed to some extent, so there may be a judgment like this that it would be better to secure the basis for the impeachment trial. But the president is making that argument. That's just one of many possible arguments, I see it like this.

[Anchor]
President Yoon Suk Yeol, in detail, lawyer Seok Dong-hyun said that lawyers will be set up after the 26th and tomorrow, and what position do you expect to be put together?

[Kim Hyung-joo]
It seems to be a repetitive position. The president's position is coming out almost repeatedly. Seok Dong Hyun's position remains the same.In any case, the strategy is inevitably time-consuming, and basically, the main part of whether the crime of rebellion can be established. And it's a context where he had no choice but to declare martial law, and that's what lawyer Seok Dong-hyun is saying from the standpoint of a lawyer.Ma is now literally asking if the investigative agency has the authority to determine the crime of rebellion, but I think that's nonsense.

If you don't have such authority, why are you putting in the crime of such rebellion? Constitution and criminal law. In that regard, whether it is the Constitutional Court or the basic judge, the prosecutor has no choice but to collect and prosecute it, whether it is an investigation by the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit or a police investigation. Also, isn't much of it revealed by the generals whose recruits are currently being extradited? I think that's enough, but in Article 51 of the Constitutional Court Act, which lawyer Seok said earlier, the Constitutional Court can postpone the investigation, but in the current situation, there is a part where the Constitutional Court can make a quick judgment while accepting the results of the investigation to a certain extent.

[Anchor]
The prosecution is also investigating the emergency martial law incident, but only some data from the case of President Yoon and former Minister of Public Administration and Security Lee Sang-min have been handed over to the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit. So, the related data on former Minister Kim Yong-hyun or other people involved have not been handed over, but even in this investigation situation, the war of nerves between the two sides continues. What do you think?

[Shin Jiho]
The prosecution and the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit. The same goes for the prosecution and the police. Director Woo Jong-soo's cell phone has been confiscated, but he has not been able to forensics. It's because the police counterattacked. So these three investigative agencies are doing this competitively, and I don't think this is right. It seems that institutions, institutional egoism, or organizational egoism, are engaged in this kind of unnecessary fight right now in order to take the initiative. So, it was like that in the past, and I think it should be like that this time, but when a proper martial law investigation special prosecutor is launched, it will be consolidated and closed whether it is a prosecutor, a police officer, or an airborne organization. Rather, I think it is by no means desirable to cause unnecessary noise due to such organizational selfish investigations only when traffic is organized quickly in such a way.

[Anchor]
I was wondering if the investigation would be settled now, but I said I would transfer it.
But it also shows that it doesn't seem to be properly transferred.

[Kim Hyung-joo]
That's right. To be honest, however, there is a part that the Democratic Party of Korea owes to a certain extent. The prosecution will eventually prosecute the prosecution because it has created an airlift and removed these areas of prosecution for treason.Ma is investigated by the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit or the police and collects it again. From the perspective of the Democratic Party of Korea, it's time for women's college, but the actual process itself is inevitable, and there was something just now.There is self-interest in the organization of each institution, and the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit is very weak according to the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit, so all aspects of the investigation, capacity, and manpower are inevitably poor. As a result, it seems that there are quite difficult parts because they have no choice but to rely on the prosecution in the end while jointly pursuing the investigation team amid the battle for leadership, and in the case of Minister Kim Yong-hyun, there may be deliberate cooperation between the prosecution and different agencies.

[Anchor]
On the other hand, the impeachment investigation has been established in the National Assembly. Of course, it was made under the leadership of the opposition party. The reason why we are in such a hurry is that we have a timetable for the next presidential election in mind. How do you analyze it?

[Kim Hyung-joo]
Rather than a timetable for the next presidential election, it is better for the nation's overall national interest to reduce the time, whether it is a vacuum in state administration or the president's dismissal. In particular, on January 20, the second Trump administration will be established, but it can't be until then anyway.Ma is believed to be in the national interest to produce results before the resignation of two constitutional judges on April 18. In that sense, the primary goal should be that preparations for this are being made by the Constitutional Court and the National Assembly. President

[Anchor]
Yoon is now saying that these procedures should be carried out carefully. We're fighting against speed control, what do you think?

[Shin Jiho]
I think it will vary depending on each political interest to what extent it progresses and whether the speed is appropriate. For example, in the case of Democratic Party Chairman Lee Jae-myung, it is in line with his political understanding that the case of the Public Official Election Act should be as slow as possible and the impeachment trial or investigation of President Yoon should be as fast as possible. Conversely, wouldn't President Yoon be the opposite again? But isn't the rule of law and the rule of law society legal stability only when the same standards are applied regardless of who is the target? However, this is related to each other, but it's an independent case, and I mean, in this respect, the courts in our society. The same criteria as the Lee Jae-myung trial so that these lawyers can prove that Korea is a mature constitutional society. I hope the presidential investigation and impeachment trial in Yoon Suk Yeol will do the same.

[Anchor]
Since the National Assembly's impeachment investigation team was created under the leadership of the opposition party, the people's power did not participate in it, and the emergency committee was launched anyway, so he said he would apologize to the public when the emergency committee chairman was launched. How are you looking at the two tracks?

[Kim Hyung-joo]
In order to be sincere in apologizing to the public, they participate in the constitutional court's confirmation hearing and the National Assembly's prosecution. When we look at the Park Geun Hye presidential prosecution, the screen shows Kwon Sung-dong, the floor leader. In the past, it was enough when he served as chairman of the committee, but now the results of not attending the constitutional judge's confirmation hearing at all are too double, I think. In order for the people's power to be reborn and to restore their philosophy and spirit as a conservative main party, isn't the whole nation watching? I'd like to ask you if this is a true apology, which apologizes but does not cooperate with the Constitutional Court trial.

[Anchor]
So, should we look at the composition of the apology and the impeachment bill separately, how do you view this part?

[Shin Jiho]
I think this impeachment was accomplished because the emergency martial law was invoked, right? Of course, even before the emergency martial law, the Democratic Party of Korea tried to deal with everything within six months without acknowledging the president of Yoon Suk Yeol, who is almost addicted to impeachment, because there is only one judicial thing left for representative Lee Jae-myung. So, even though today is Christmas, in a way, President Yoon gave Lee Jae-myung a huge political gift among political critics. Aren't you talking about this?

However, in the power of the people, there was a very fierce confrontation with the pros and cons of impeachment. But strangely, there was martial law, so wasn't there an impeachment? Then what is the evaluation of martial law? There is no clear assessment of martial law. Have you been violently confronted with the pros and cons of martial law? So it's changed before and after. The power of the people should first be sorted out on the emergency martial law on December 3rd. You have to make a clear judgment on whether this emergency decree is unconstitutional or illegal without even being able to organize it. Wouldn't it be -6책ㄷ야 적절했는가ㅐㅍ 판단 to take a position on impeachment ㅐㅍ? It's completely twisted right now.

[Anchor]
While the ruling and opposition parties are now in conflict in various ways, the National Assembly Judiciary Committee yesterday clashed over the meaning of civil war. The opposition party has already almost defined President Yoon as the head of the civil war, and the ruling party said that Chairman Lee Jae-myung should not conclude early on the principle of presumption of innocence. What do you think of this?

[Kim Hyung-joo]
They're in the same position. As for CEO Lee Jae-myung, even if there was an early presidential election, there was criticism about resolving judicial risks, avoiding the appointment of lawyers, and delaying delivery. If you're so proud, you should be acquitted and run for president, as if it's the same story. It's the same thing. Isn't going to the Constitutional Court the same thing? So the president didn't even give me a real bullet about the legitimacy of martial law and where is the two-hour martial law. If you are this confident, shouldn't you go out quickly in front of the Constitutional Court and reduce the national instability of the people as soon as possible, just as you can set up an impeachment prosecution and be tried?

So, it's not a double standard, regardless of whether you're ruling or opposition. Isn't it the same Naero Nambul? Regarding that, how would it be if Representative Lee Jae-myung was tried as soon as possible and was acquitted of the second trial of the election law in the middle and second half of next year? You can get a much higher percentage of the vote and you have a higher chance. If the president is so confident, why don't you go to the Constitutional Court quickly, don't you hold out like this, don't fight like you're being arrested, and quickly go out to investigate today or now?

[Anchor]
Park Ji-won, Chung Chung-rae of the Democratic Party of Korea, Park Joon-tae, and Song Seok-joon of the People's Power also spoke out in connection with the situation, but former lawmaker Yoo Seung Min also criticized President Yoon or Representative Lee Jae-myung as a decalcomani. How did you like it?

[Shin Jiho]
Those two fought in the last presidential election. The president of Yoon Suk Yeol was elected by a slight difference, and since then, they have been in a static relationship with each other. When it comes to avoiding trial or investigation recently, they are at odds with each other. So, it's not what the national leader, who has already become the president and wants to become the president, should do, but just show the level of general miscellaneous affairs. So, I think there are criticisms that it's a decalcomanie like that.

[Anchor]
Although there are a few within the ruling party now, some have different views. This is the case with lawmaker Cho Kyung-tae. He referred to President Yoon as the X-Men of the Democratic Party. How did you hear that Lee Jae-myung suddenly prepared an exit for him and created a hole to survive?

[Kim Hyung-joo]
I wish I hadn't done that. As a result, it is regrettable that the foreign press said that the world cannot understand that the president hit the emergency martial law, not the regional security martial law in a state that the entire people cannot understand. I can understand how Cho Kyung-tae feels now.Ma became an X-man based on the result theory. It's done.Ma believes that the primary issue is how to reduce internal conflicts, so to speak, within the power of the people.

[Anchor]
I've heard the positions and voices of each lawmaker. Let's talk about CEO Lee Jae-myung. I received a suspended prison sentence under the Public Official Election Act. So the second trial and the Supreme Court remain. Whether this comes first or President Yoon's impeachment trial comes first, there are still conflicting positions on these two issues.

[Shin Jiho]
So if the scenario that Lee Jae-myung wants right now is that the early presidential election is held without the final judgment of the Public Official Election Act and he is elected, right? Even if that happens, there is another problem. Except in the case of foreign exchange, the President shall not be criminally prosecuted during his/her term in office. There is a privilege to remove fluoride, but this is an early presidential election following impeachment, so if impeachment is cited and an early presidential election is held, there is no transition process. President-elect, we don't have these two months. You have to take office the day after the election.

Then, Article 84 of the Constitution will mark the first day of his presidency. However, there are disagreements among lawyers over whether the prosecution of the fluoridation privilege includes only prosecution or trial. As far as I can tell, prosecution is only applicable. Therefore, I know that the majority theory is that criminal trials that had been going on before the election of the president should continue, but the trial should be suspended due to the minority theory. The U.S. is also divided into Trump, saying, "Don't you think it's going to be like that?"

So this is really a mountain beyond a mountain. So if representative Lee Jae-myung really wants to become president, please proceed with mine quickly. And I want to proudly run for the presidential election and be elected on my first day of office, but recently, I have to serve the document that the appeals court has begun, but the director is missing. I couldn't deliver it because the new address was unclear because I moved. I found a new address and did it, but now it's closed door. The door is closed and there are no people in the house, so it's a bit embarrassing because it's on the news.

So I got it from the National Assembly office. Then you have to appoint your own lawyer quickly, but you're not appointing him. If you're frustrated, did the court appoint you as a public defender? Do you know what happens then? I don't use that public defender as it is. I'll be the private defender instead of the public defender. So if you do that, you'll be relieved of your public defender appointment and you'll be newly appointed, which will take a few days. As political leaders, neither of you should be doing this.

[Anchor]
What do you think about the same issue?

[Kim Hyung-joo]
It's the same repetition. Rather, as the senior members of the National Assembly say, the ruling party will drag each other a little more through a constitutional amendment to shorten the term of office, and the ruling party, especially if the election is held right now in the midst of impeachment, said that the Democratic Party of Korea has an absolute advantage regardless of whether Lee Jae-myung becomes the leader or not, so I will try to prolong the time even if President Yoon himself goes to prison at the end. Isn't this the view that it's beneficial for us on the right, honestly?

If that's the case, CEO Lee Jae-myung deliberately moves as representative Lee Jae-myung does, and President Yoon waits three times and holds out. You don't have a shame to see the people. in the political circle That's because the leader of the opposition party and the president do that. If not, I think it is necessary to have such a conversation, such as signing a gentleman's agreement and agreeing with each other in a way that naturally resigns from the presidential election in the year after the next year, or taking the initiative and holding a presidential election two months after completing the trial and impeachment process by the first half of next year.

[Anchor]
Interpreting the same issue differently, as is the issue of constitutional judges. The Democratic Party of Korea should appoint Han Deok-soo, the acting president, and the people's power is saying that this is not the acting president. What do you think?

[Shin Jiho]
So they're both difficulties. So, CEO Lee Jae-myung and the president of Yoon Suk Yeol said they were decalcomani earlier, but this is similar. So, when the issue of appointing a constitutional judge and whether or not to exercise the right to veto is surrounded, O and X are divided. It's inconsistent. OO and XX are consistent, but let's do it on the side in their favor, and let's not do it on the side in their disadvantage. However, I personally believe that the Democratic Party is clearly responsible for leaving three members of the Constitutional Court's recommendation to the National Assembly vacant. It's clear, but if the current situation is like this, it's right for me to appoint a constitutional judge. And isn't it incomplete for the president to try to impeach lawyer Seok Dong-hyun under the six-member system? I think it would be better to do so because I even showed my intention that all nine of us should be kicked.

[Anchor]
We have prepared the part where Acting President Han Deok-soo made a statement. I just handed the ball over to the National Assembly. I'll listen to it myself and continue on. Acting Han Deok-soo's position is so that the ruling and opposition parties should put their heads together. He expressed this position, asking the ruling and opposition parties to cooperate with each other on the appointment of the independent counsel, Kim Gun-hee, and the Constitutional Court. Do you think it's going to be a partnership under the current situation? How do you see this situation now?

[Kim Hyung-joo]
I think acting Han Deok-soo is cowardly. So, didn't you hand over the authority as a strict acting authority given to you to the National Assembly? Sneak it to Chairman Woo Won-sik. In practice, I understand the position of acting Han Deok-soo, as well as what is important now, and I know that I can't receive it right away because I know the power of the people and the position of the ruling party, but as Representative Shin just said, we can take what we will judge for the overall national interest. Now, no matter what anyone says, I think it's right even if I get three constitutional judges for the National Assembly, create a nine-member system, and then drag on. The fact that it is sent back to the National Assembly on the grounds that it is controversial itself, in my view, is that it will be handed over to the National Assembly once more to take more time, and if it is received again, I will look at the public opinion then. I understand that it means you'll only live your own life.

[Anchor]
In the end, if the ruling and opposition parties do not agree, they exercise their veto power, should it be viewed with this intention?

[Shin Jiho]
Well, tomorrow. Tomorrow, the Democratic Party will finally decide whether or not to appoint Han Deok-soo, the acting chief justice of the Constitutional Court, after seeing whether he will appoint three more candidates, isn't this the case? On the other hand, acting Han Deok-soo asked the National Assembly to make a good judgment. I'm not sure. I can't easily predict what kind of judgment I'll make tomorrow.Ma said, "If the opposition party impeaches acting Han Deok-soo because it did not go as requested by the opposition party, another dispute will arise over whether the quorum is 200 or 151. It is said that the primary interpretation and authority lies with the chairman of the National Assembly, but it is also the Constitutional Court that finally decides. So it could get twisted as it gets twisted. So I think that the Democratic Party of Korea may have much more to lose than it has to gain as much as the impeachment of Han Deok-soo.

[Anchor]
Yesterday, the Democratic Party of Korea unanimously agreed to impeach acting Han Deok-soo, but it was put on hold for now. How much will it do to make any changes to acting Han Deok-soo?

[Kim Hyung-joo]
In practice, it's hard to see it as a criterion for judging a decision because it's even under pressure. It's just two things. First, representative Lee Jae-myung first talked about acknowledging acting Han Deok-soo for the political instability of this issue. Even if we go deeper again, is there anything beneficial for the DP when you impeach acting chief Han Deok-soo, then you impeach Deputy Prime Minister for Economy Choi Sang-mok, and then you impeach Deputy Prime Minister for Education? Public sentiment deteriorates, and in the end, the time for impeachment is bound to increase. In that respect, acting Han Deok-soo still reads it as a message, but in my view, even if the two special prosecutors are rejected, I hope at least three constitutional judges will agree. There is no problem with acting Han Deok-soo, even the candidate for the Constitutional Court of the People's Power, whose confirmation hearing is currently over. Candidate Cho Han-chang said that. If this is the case, I hope that Prime Minister Han Deok-soo will accept at least three constitutional judges, if not, for example, a pair of special prosecutors.

[Anchor]
Let's stop here for today's talk. So far, Shin Ji-ho, the head of the Strategic Planning Department for People's Power, and Kim Hyung-joo, a former lawmaker of the Democratic Party. Thank you both.