Presidential Office "No problem with recording"...Minjoo, large-scale outdoor rally

■ Host: Kim Sun-young Anchor
■ Appearance: Kim Ki-heung, former deputy spokesperson for the president's office, Jang Hyun-joo, vice chairman of the Minjoo Party's legal committee

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN Newswide] when quoting.

[Anchor]
Regarding the transcript shared by President Yoon Suk Yeol and Myung Tae-kyun, the president's office said there were no political, legal, or common sense problems. On the other hand, the Democratic Party holds a large-scale outdoor rally today to pressure the special prosecutor. Let's see how far the transcripts will spread. Today, we have Kim Ki-heung, former presidential office's deputy spokesperson, Hyun-joo, vice chairman of the Democratic Party of Korea's legal committee, and the two of them. Welcome.

Since the release of the transcript, the Democratic Party's pressure on the government is increasing. Yesterday, the steering committee also had a fierce war of words. Let's listen to it for a second. First, let's look at the controversy over lying. Therefore, they did not contact or exchange after the primary. So, it's an explanation that you can't make this a lie.

[Jang Hyun-joo]
There was an explanation that the president's office met about two times when controversies related to Myung Tae-kyun came out. And after the primary, the relationship was cut off, he explained. However, the fact that they met twice turned out to be false after it was revealed that they met more than twice due to the testimony of those involved. And the public is questioning whether the president's initial explanation that he was cut off after the primary is correct as the president's voice, which he spoke with Myung Tae-kyun on the phone on May 9, was revealed. Chung Jin-seok, the chief of staff, said, "It was eventually cut off after the presidential election, but there was no exchange in the middle of it." However, I am concerned that it would be difficult for the president's office to believe whatever explanation the president's office gives if there are circumstances where these explanations continue to turn out to be untrue from the public's point of view, just like a shepherd boy.

[Anchor]
He explained that he cut it off after the primary, but didn't the phone recordings come out? So isn't this a false explanation? It's a claim like this. How do you see it?

[Kim Gi-heung]
So, if the presidential office had responded after comprehensively examining it carefully when responding, it would have been less misunderstood, but there is a regret for that. However, after the recording of Myung Tae-kyun and the president, I believe that it is too much to define it as a nomination intervention or a manipulation of state affairs and use it as the reason for impeachment, and that it crossed the line.

[Anchor]
Are you saying that's the legal aspect?

[Kim Ki-heung]
is correct. Most of all, I am. When the recording is released, you try to find the truth of everything in the recording, but after the recording, you have to look at the context of the front and back. Above all, from our perspective, since the sound experts are looking at the sound, frequency, and sound width, isn't there a possibility that the three places will be edited or manipulated? If so, if something has been deleted and something has been edited, there may be another truth there, so I think it is unreasonable to conclude this only with the part that has come out now.

[Anchor]
Is there a legal problem? Looking at this part, isn't the timing of this recording very controversial? It's May 9th, so it's still before the presidential inauguration. The ruling camp's position is that there is no legal problem because you are an elected president, so what do you think?

[Jang Hyun-joo]
First of all, from the public's point of view, the stories in this transcript, and the time when it was recorded was May 9, so it is questionable whether it is actually right for the public to discuss the illegality and legal domain of the president's so-called civil status and not violation of the election law. Even so, such an explanation comes out, so if you think about it, you can say that the president was a civilian on May 9th because he was elected. However, there are many stories in the legal profession about this, and especially, there is a clear interpretation that since the transcript of Kim Young-sun is left, and the nomination was made on May 10, the act can be combined into one and eventually viewed as a public official. However, even if you consider this part as a civilian, there are various suspicions other than the issue of the Public Official Election Act.

In particular, according to Kang Hye-kyung's argument, there are now claims that Myung Tae-kyun provided a poll during the presidential election and won the nomination in return. Then, regardless of whether you were a civilian on May 9, violation of the Political Fund Act will certainly be a problem. In particular, the explanation that there is no legal problem because it is simply a story that came out on May 9th because it can be examined by going beyond the establishment of bribery crimes such as fraudulent treatment after taking over is actually wrong and seems not convincing to the public.

[Anchor]
Of course, since it is a short recording, there may be room for the context to change a little if you listen to the front and back, but anyway, Kim Young-sun, who came out as President Yoon Suk Yeol's voice, asked me to do it, and this one line is becoming a considerable problem. What do you think of this point as illegal and legal territory?

[Kim Gi-heung]
First of all, to add to this, Myung Tae-kyun said that the party will take care of this part, and that part has been deleted. I want to tell you that something has been edited. That's how I am. The reason why this is illegal or not is important is that the opposition party does not stop at that level, but uses this as an important basis for impeachment, right? Then we have no choice but to say that we are not a reason for impeachment, that we have not committed any serious crimes that are legally in violation of the Constitution and the law. We can't help but talk about the legal aspect when the other person just wants to take this and bring it down morally beyond criticism. On the one hand, the president explicitly became president on May 10th.

If you talk on the phone and express your opinion on a nomination before that and say that it is the time of the president or the time of the public official, it is very difficult to statute of limitations when all crimes are committed and when any effect occurs. That's why I think it should be considered in terms of clarity. Above all, former President Park Geun Hye's intervention in the nomination, which the opposition says is qualitatively different from that part, is that at that time, Cheong Wa Dae turned the poll internally for the nomination of so-called pro-Park lawmakers and gave the data to the party. The party made a so-called primary list and used it in the election and in the election.

I think that simple expression of opinion is different from this is the mainstream of the legal profession. Above all, if the opposition party talks about it, didn't the entire presidential office systematically move to elect Song Chul-ho, a friend of the president, during the Moon Jae In administration? We have no choice but to talk about this and then what kind of opinion is expressed and which is more severe.
[Jang Hyun-joo]
If I add a little bit, of course, I agree that the legal aspect will also be a problem later on. However, I regret that the presidential office and the ruling party's explanation should recognize and pet the point where the people are disappointed and angry before talking about the legal aspect. In particular, I think we need to approach it in the political and common sense areas. Director Chung Jin-seok said that the presidential office confirms that there is no problem politically, legally, and common sense, but I wonder if the presidential office is the one who checks it. I think it's a common sense part, something that the people will evaluate. I think it is also an area for politicians and even the people to judge whether they are politically responsible. In particular, since the legal part is finally confirmed by the investigative agency and the judiciary, I think the fact that the president's office confirmed this will help the president's office itself at all. I don't think so.

[Kim Gi-heung]
So, I can't affirm the facts because it's limited information. But with this limited information, aren't the opposition parties calling this nomination intervention and manipulating state affairs? Then that means you've gone ahead. For example, wasn't there a controversy if you flew so-called Biden? Isn't that what many people said about Biden? I know that the president criticized the president of the United States and the Congress of the United States or cursed something. But earlier this year, the sentence came out in the first trial. That's not Biden. He said he wasn't criticizing the U.S. government. But people know that because of the afterimage, the initial report. If so, it can be said that it is up to the ruling party and the president's office to narrow the gap in substance and perception, but I think we should have a basis to talk about other things and mistakes.

[Anchor]
Let's look at the presidential office's response in more detail in a moment. In any case, the more the recordings of pollack bacteria are released one by one, the bigger the wavelength is. The recording of the phone call that Myung Tae-kyun had with former lawmaker Kim Young-sun was also released. Let's listen to this for a moment, too. If you just listen to the phone call, Myung Tae-kyun seems to be just angry with former lawmaker Kim Young-sun, but there is no context, so how can you infer that situation?

[Jang Hyun-joo]
First of all, it is known that it was recorded in mid-June, that is, after the local election on June 1, 2022. In fact, we don't know exactly what's going on and scolding them like that. However, if you look at the contents of this recording, Myung Tae-kyun almost yells at former lawmaker Kim Young-sun. However, as you know, former lawmaker Kim Young-sun is a five-term lawmaker. If one senior lawmaker and one and one member of the National Assembly, who is a constitutional institution, are scolded and scolded like that, I wonder how much the relationship between Myung Tae-kyun and former lawmaker Kim Young-sun is, or how much of his status is that former lawmaker Kim Young-sun can't say a word back or respond properly.

[Anchor]
There is a part where the response part has not been properly disclosed.

[Jang Hyun-joo]
That's right. Let me tell you about the recording. Therefore, if you guess from this, there are speculations that former lawmaker Kim Young-sun may have been caught because Myung Tae-kyun played an important role in winning the nomination. On the other hand, Myung Tae-kyun is saying that Kim Gun-hee is in power in the transcript. Therefore, it is indirectly inferred what role Mrs. Kim Gun-hee played at the time.

[Anchor]
Mrs. Kim Gun-hee expressed herself as a person in power just by looking at that recording, so if you guess Myung Tae-kyun, there seems to be speculation that she was trying to get something by keeping in touch with Mrs. Kim Gun-hee.

[Kim Gi-heung]
First of all, if you look at how I should look at Myung Tae-kyun, when the president knew him, he had a good relationship with Kim Jong-in, former chairman of the emergency committee, and Lee Joon-seok, then chairman of the party. From that point of view, when we are introduced to a person, who is it when we evaluate a person or a person we can trust? Looking at party leader Lee Joon-seok and former emergency committee chairman Kim Jong-in, isn't it known that this person played a role in the middle? But isn't the problem that the president has drawn the so-called line because there is an excessive aspect of what he says and does over time? In that regard, is it Kang Hye-kyung?

He also appears in the National Assembly and expresses that the president drew a line after his election. But in my view, the presidential office's position is the same, but Mrs. Kim Gun-hee couldn't. I think that's very inappropriate. If so, from Myung Tae-kyun's point of view, she is constantly giving it to Kim Gun-hee in the midst of a break with the president. You don't let go of the string. Then I can show you that when I talk to someone, I can't communicate with the president and I can communicate with Mrs. Kim Gun-hee. Then, about Mrs. Kim Gun-hee, you have to say that she is the first in the power hierarchy or a very absolute person, doesn't the authority of words be created? In that process, I think he used that expression to overwhelm and pressure Representative Kim Young-sun rather than to substantive content. If the opposition party keeps saying that Kim Gun-hee is the number one in power, I would like you to tell me a little bit about what policies the Yoon Suk Yeol government has, and what messages have been changed by Kim Gun-hee, but this continues to be the case. But the reason I can't ignore it is because many people feel annoyed and tired when they listen to it, so I hope Kim Gun-hee doesn't come out. I've come all the way here. In that respect, the position of the presidential office is important, but I think the opposition party is expanding this part too much.

[Anchor]
Anyway, the key problem now is the nomination of Myung Tae-kyun and former lawmaker Kim Young-sun. In this regard, Rep. Lee Joon-seok of the New Reform Party, is the party leader who took a seal on the nomination at the time, so I can't say that I have nothing to do with it. I said this in an interview. At that time, there were two or three nominations that I wouldn't have made. I didn't say where this is. It will not be concluded by the influence of the president, but how can we rule out the possibility? So, the presidential office was influenced. There wasn't, I'm not concluding, but I left the possibility open anyway.

[Jang Hyun-joo]
That's right. Former representative Lee Joon-seok and lawmaker Lee Joon-seok continue to confirm that they were not involved in the nomination of former lawmaker Kim Young-sun. At that time, the nomination was done by the Public Official Commission, and the party leader said that he did not intervene or even know about it.

[Anchor]
Isn't it former CEO Lee Joon-seok who met at Chilbulsa Temple?

[Jang Hyun-joo]
That's right. Yesterday, the steering committee's chief Chung Jin-seok talked about it to Rep. Cheon Ha-ram, which heated up the atmosphere of the steering committee. In fact, it is clear that Rep. Lee Joon-seok also had some relationship with Myung Tae-kyun, but at least in relation to the nomination of former Rep. Kim Young-sun, it seems that representative Lee Joon-seok did not intervene at the time. At the same time, since the possibility of the president's intervention is open to some extent, the transcript of the president's development has already been released, and if there is a situation where the recordings of Myung Tae-kyun and former lawmaker Kim Young-sun's verbal abuse have been released, I think there is some circumstantial evidence that the presidential office and first lady Kim Gun-hee were involved in the nomination of former lawmaker Kim Young-sun.

[Anchor]
Representative Lee Joon-seok met former lawmaker Kim Young-sun and Myung Tae-kyun at Chilbulsa Temple in the early morning. And the president of Yoon Suk Yeol, whose transcripts were released. the presidential office Should I call it a ping pong game? From the outside, it looks like you're busy passing it over. Anyway, the presidential office's explanation was completed by Lee Joon-seok and Yoon Sang-hyun, then chairman of the nomination management committee, right?

[Kim Gi-heung]
In fact, there were two or three nominations that Rep. Lee Joon-seok mentioned yesterday that I would not have nominated at the time. I heard the interview. And what's really interesting about this is that I got on the subway yesterday and met with CEO Lee Jun-seok. But I just said hello and passed by.

[Anchor]
You should have asked.

[Kim Gi-heung]
But because we had a way to go to each other, the subway came and we just broke up. However, when I heard about it, then-party leader Lee Joon-seok said there was a problem with the nomination, which was the district of Ahn Cheol Soo. Bundang. In his opinion, he should have gone toward Gyeyang. Why? At that time, CEO Lee Jae-myung appeared in Gyeyang. Therefore, strategically, it was worth trying because it was after the presidential election. So he wants Ahn Cheol Soo to go this way. That's what they said. And you know what Lee Joon-seok's relationship with the president is like and you still know it now. It's not a very good relationship, so if he said more explicitly that the president was involved, he wouldn't conclude that it was the influence of the president, but he would say, "How would you exclude the possibility?" It's not this expression, but it's a possibility, or it's a possibility. So he's very careful, and when he says something about Kim Young-sun's nomination, he never said he had a problem with this. And many people misunderstand that Kim Young-sun won three terms in Goyang and four terms in proportionality, but she declared a year ago that she would appear as governor of Gyeonggi Province in 2018. And then 2020 came out. And after that, he worked hard in civic groups. That's why I didn't go there all of a sudden. In particular, this person...

[Anchor]
Didn't you come out of nowhere?

[Kim Ki-heung]
is correct. I was born in Geochang, Gyeongsangnam-do. That's why, as many people are concerned now, I'll tell you that a person who hasn't even heard of it has not suddenly been nominated for a strategic nomination.

[Anchor]
Anyway, Yoon Sang-hyun, chairman of the mission committee, was in charge of all the nominations at the time, but he never took the report to the president-elect. And even though we haven't investigated all the mission members, it can't have been like this. If this goes to the investigation area and the investigation is conducted thoroughly, will the party leader and the head of the mission committee go to a position where they are responsible anyway? What should I do?

[Jang Hyun-joo]
It will be difficult to conclude yet. However, according to the president's voice record, the mission committee came with it, so Kim Young-sun said, "Please do it." Then, in any way, we have no choice but to guess in common sense whether the then-elect was reported by the Public Official Commission. However, Yoon Sang-hyun, chairman of the mission committee at the time, said that he was not, but he did not know the possibility that any of the mission members might have gone. It's going to be hard to know everything. Therefore, even if it is not Chairman Yoon Sang-hyun, I think it would be difficult for those involved at the time to escape responsibility if they contacted the then-elect and talked about former lawmaker Kim Young-sun's nomination, and if such circumstances would be revealed later in an investigation or some fact-finding investigation.

[Anchor]
Yesterday, Presidential Chief of Staff Chung Jin-suk said that the presidential office is feeling a sense of crisis somehow and that President Yoon Suk Yeol will make a statement in some way within this month. Is there a format that has been materialized now?

[Kim Gi-heung]
There is a saying that we should talk about conversations or things like that to the people or hold a press conference. At first, the president has an overseas trip this time. But considering that, until last week, people said that it would be around the end of November. However, as the controversy has intensified this time, there are voices that say that the position of the presidential office and some actions should be accelerated. That's why I think it's necessary for the president to talk about the controversy over Myung Tae-kyun in his own voice.

Regarding First Lady Kim Gun-hee, she should also do it with her own upbringing. Then, is it better to do it in the same place on the same day or to do it separately? I think we need to think about various political issues. This is very difficult. The reason is that when you say you apologize, what kind of controversy does the apology end, or did the opposition party admit it with the apology? So, the aspect of apologizing may be a little different from acknowledging a fact itself, but from acknowledging and, in a way, expressing regret over this overall issue. Acknowledgement and apology. However, I understand that there may be such an aspect of strengthening the cause of the opposition's offensive by equating it, so I am thinking about the method, timing, and such things.

[Anchor]
Since this is the time, there is a lot of talk that there is a high possibility that he will not be able to attend the municipal speech in two days.

[Jang Hyun-joo]
That's right. It's been a practice for the past 11 years for the president to deliver a corrective speech on Monday, the day after tomorrow, the 4th, when the government originally submitted a budget bill at the National Assembly and asked the National Assembly to cooperate on it. But I think all the people are hoping not to become a president who breaks this practice. Since there is not much time left, I think the staff in the presidential office should persuade the president to show the people that the president will come at least on the 4th.

[Anchor]
Do you think you need to come out more at times like this?

[Jang Hyun-joo]
That's right. At times like this, you should come out more, and if you say that you will read this speech to the prime minister, I think you will lose nothing and important things. Eventually, it seems that only the president's image of communication will be fixed. In particular, I am concerned that the president may seem to be hiding at a time when various bad news, especially controversies related to First Lady Kim Gun-hee, transcripts of Myung Tae-kyun, and such parts are pouring out in front of the people. Therefore, in this case, the president should show his role and do his job, and I think that the president's statement in November will feel sincere from the public's point of view.

[Anchor]
The outdoor rally is held today and a city administration speech is scheduled the day after. The more the opposition party's opposition is, the better it is to go out for communication. What do you think of that?

[Kim Gi-heung]
I couldn't agree more. In the past, I said that I should have gone to the opening speech of the National Assembly. In a way, I think the president is a place where he is criticized by the people and the opposition parties if he is not good enough. It's not an individual problem, but I think you should think about that because you're the president. However, there may be concerns that such things could be a process of destroying the status of the presidency beyond the individual president, but I think it is right to face them nonetheless. As you said earlier from that point of view, the staff in the presidential office should apologize for these parts in a big way, and eat when they are criticized. I think so.

[Anchor]
I personally think it's better to just give a speech...

[Kim Ki-heung]
Yes, I think I should definitely do it regarding the budget.

[Anchor]
He gave us his opinion. Talking about the party for a while, CEO Han Dong-hoon has not answered reporters' questions since the release of the transcript and has remained silent. It's strategic silence, you can't stay silent forever even though you're looking at it like this. What kind of stance do you think we should take?

[Kim Gi-heung]
From Han Dong-hoon's point of view, the impact of Han Dong-hoon's words and actions can be large depending on how the behavior is perceived and interpreted regardless of one's good intentions. That's why I think I'm really thinking about it. Also, since he was a prosecutor, he sees legal things, but isn't he a politician? If so, I will think about the areas that can be interpreted, but if I look at some of the parts that have been released so far, I will definitely block this part because the opposition party explicitly has a problem with the current situation and uses it as a material for impeachment. However, I think I will probably ask the president's office to change its political position, the president's office, and even various controversies, including Kim Gun-hee, as well as a series of current transcripts.

[Anchor]
Will it clearly send a message of reform while blocking the opposition's offensive?

[Kim Ki-heung]
is correct. I think that's how it should be. So, if we add a lot of things and the suspicion turns out to be true, we can just make sure that it fits. There is no reason to interpret it more actively in the current situation. Above all, it's not just our problem, but isn't there a strong aspect that Lee Jae-myung and the Democratic Party of Korea are dragged down before they are dragged down? The talk of impeachment has become a reality. Representative Lee Jae-myung said, "Isn't it impeachment because he will be brought down during the by-elections?" He said, "Buddhist in the eyes of the ministry and pig in the eyes of the pig," but the Korean media interpreted all of them as impeachment. In the end, I use it as a material to unite my anxiety and something for that, so if this is a problem this much, I have to interpret it this much, but since there are aspects that are overused, I think that should be prevented firmly.

[Anchor]
In the Democratic Party, it will start in a little while today, but it's 2 p.m. Hold an outdoor rally. At first, I was going to put up the keyword of Kim Gun-hee's independent counsel, but now I'm going to highlight the suspicion of Yoon Suk Yeol's alleged manipulation of state affairs.

[Jang Hyun-joo]
When this outdoor rally was first planned, the most important thing was to gather public opinion on it because we are pursuing a special investigation into Kim Gun-hee again. As you know, after the parliamentary audit, the Democratic Party once again announced that it would pursue the Special Prosecutor Act on Kim Gun-hee, and it seems that it will be carried out properly within November. Therefore, no matter how much the National Assembly passes the special prosecution law, if the president vetoes it, things that have been blocked at the threshold have been repeated, so this time, it is a process to appeal to the public and gather public opinion on why the special prosecution law against Kim Gun-hee is necessary. However, suspicions that the president's voice record, which came out a few days ago, might have intervened in the nomination eventually snowballed, and naturally, it is expected that it will be such an outdoor rally that condemns President Yoon Suk Yeol and his wife for such a part as whether the administration has run state affairs properly.

[Anchor]
Some lawmakers are even talking about impeachment and resignation, but the word impeachment is not officially put up at this Democratic-led outdoor rally?

[Jang Hyun-joo]
That's not going to happen. Because from the Democratic Party's point of view, the leadership has never officially discussed or publicized impeachment or the resignation that individual lawmakers are talking about. In particular, the word impeachment itself is a painful word that the people are very traumatized. Of course, as an opposition party and as a responsible opposition party, I don't think we can use these words carelessly. That's why today's outdoor rally, as I said at the beginning, should be viewed in the direction of the opposition party's plan to gather public opinion on the special prosecution law against First Lady Kim Gun-hee and to speak out with the public once again that the current direction of the presidential office and the presidential office are wrong.

[Anchor]
I don't use the word impeachment, but people keep saying, "Isn't it a build-up process?" and inside the Democratic Party of Korea, impeachment is not very realistic, so let's propose a constitutional amendment to shorten the four-year term. Some even said that President Yoon wouldn't accept this.

[Kim Ki-heung]
Originally, the constitutional amendment was discussed so far to be done by the then president or the next president, but they were discussing not only shortening the term of office by one year, but also shortening the term by two years now. They talked about it themselves. We talked about another form of continuous impeachment. In the end, the purpose is clear. I don't think Lee Jae-myung will do that when people see him after losing the presidential election, why would he go to Gyeyang and become a member of the National Assembly, and the party leader doesn't have to do it, so he doesn't have to take responsibility for the defeat in the presidential election, so why would he do it?

In the end, he wore a lot of bulletproof clothes for his own bulletproofness. In the end, the first trial comes out now, and in the past, I thought the final trial was likely to be released after 27 years, but the time of the court and the clock became faster. I'm in a hurry. As a result, it would be unfair to talk about impeachment yourself. But a lot of the crowd who gathered there would talk about impeachment and resignation. In the end, he laid the groundwork for making us talk about impeachment. And in this regard, didn't Chairman Lee Jae-myung summon all the members of the National Assembly and the chairman of the district party yesterday? In the end, I think there is a part where I pushed for a certain urgency to fight. In this crisis, I believe that the presidential office and the people's power should know this and admit it politically and sincerely, and if there is a problem, we should fight back.

[Anchor]
Anyway, there is no possibility of receiving that constitutional amendment card, so you see it like this, right?

[Kim Gi-heung]
That's right. I don't think there's any.

[Anchor]
Finally, since the rally begins just before the first trial ruling of Lee Jae-myung, some say that if the wave of this rally is guilty similar to the old sentence, it will lead to a rally that mixes opposition to the judiciary's judgment.

[Jang Hyun-joo]
That's right. On the one hand, I think there's definitely that kind of offensive. I think it's something I don't agree with. This is because the judiciary is scheduled for the first trial on the 15th and 25th. I think the conclusion has been decided to some extent by now. It's a time when the draft of the judgment could have been released. At this time, it seems difficult to see a Democratic Party of Korea holding an outdoor rally affecting the judiciary's decision. Rather, I think these appearances show that the power of the people is still not deviating from the part of trying to link themselves to the judicial risks of representative Lee Jae-myung regarding bad news related to the power of the people, various Kim Gun-hee's risks, and such controversies. I don't think the public sees Lee Jae-myung's first trial sentence and Kim Gun-hee's risk in connection. Since each is separate, the opposition party is of course fulfilling its responsibilities according to the opposition's timetable, I think so.

[Anchor]
I'll stop talking about Jungkook. So far, Kim Ki-heung, former presidential office's deputy spokesman, Hyun-joo, vice chairman of the Democratic Party of Korea's legal committee. Thank you.