Mrs. Kim's independent counsel law is out of 4 votes...Friendship "Out of warning"

■ Host: Lee Se-na Anchor
■ Starring: Cho Chung-rae, former vice president of Yeouido Institute, Kim Man-heum, former head of the National Assembly Legislative Investigation Department

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN Newswide] when quoting.

[Anchor]
Kim Gun-hee's independent counsel law was finally rejected after a re-vote. While four votes were cast, there was also a comment from the close circle that it was a "kind of warning." The conflict between the party and the government seems to be difficult to subside easily. Let's take a look at the main political issues. Cho Chung-rae, former vice president of Yeouido Institute, and Kim Man-heum, former head of the National Assembly Legislative Investigation Department. The Special Prosecutor Kim's Act was finally abolished due to the rejection of the re-vote, and four people voted to leave from the people's power. How do you analyze the results?

[Kim Man-heum]
If you look at the vote itself, it's no different from the previous one. In addition to the Kim Gun-hee Special Prosecutor Act, this is the second Marine Special Prosecutor Act in the 22nd National Assembly. So, I'm going to compare it with the last time, but in the case of the Special Prosecutor Chae's Act, 104 votes came out when we went to the re-decision. So, the Kim Gun-hee Special Prosecutor Act went to a re-decision for the first time, but if we look at it together, the vote itself is similar to then and now. The number of votes itself is similar, but it seems that the party barely managed to keep it in a state of anxiety while feeling very public opinion or stinging, reflecting the psychological content.

[Anchor]
You said you managed to protect it, how do you see it?

[Cho Cheong-rae]
It seems to be a sign that more and more lawmakers are conflicted in their minds as the public opinion becomes more severe. In the case of the Marine Corps Special Prosecutor Act, some lawmakers publicly expressed their approval, but in the case of the Kim Gun-hee Special Prosecutor Act, no lawmaker has expressed their intention. However, compared to the re-vote in February, there was almost no departure at that time. But just because the four of you left doesn't mean that there's nothing wrong with this. I think we should take this seriously. This is a mixture of parliamentarians' skepticism about whether we should leave it alone when the public opinion is getting worse, and self-mocking about not being able to do anything and show meaningful politics and policies to the people in the relationship between the party and the presidential office. So once the departure ticket starts to come out, it's hard to pick it up and put it in. In fact, the party decided to reject it. And if you promote all the voting methods and say that this happened, it's nothing, we don't have to leave and ask. In my view, the party takes this issue seriously. I think we need to come up with measures quickly.

[Anchor]
Let me ask you an additional question. As you said, Shin Ji-ho, the head of the People's Power Strategy Planning Department, who is pro-limit, also gave a similar opinion that special measures are needed, analyzing it as a warning sign.

[Cho Cheong-rae]
That's what I see. In general, politics seeks a way when public opinion moves. But even though the years are passing by, this will work out, it's not what we have to say. You have to do this on your own. You look at it like this. However, the time is now in October compared to February, so the base is gradually weakening for about 7-8 months, so if the people ask for an apology, I believe that from the standpoint of politics, I should reflect the demand. If there is any part of the controversy that continues, we should make measures or measures to prevent the controversy and explain it to the public. So, if even one person raised a problem with the party's theory and went against the party's theory, I believe that this should be done by thoroughly examining the cause and process.

[Anchor]
What do you think of Chief Kim? In the case of lawyer Shin Pyeong, Kim Gun-hee said that if she apologizes, it will trigger the impeachment. What measures do you think are needed?

[Kim Man-heum]
Then you have to stay still or block it like now. I think that's what you're saying. Can we move on when we block this like bulletproof? While President Yoon Suk Yeol is doing well in other things, if this one thing is a special issue, I don't know if I will take the opportunity to press it, but the public opinion will get worse if it continues to be blocked. Some people are only talking about apples. It is necessary to look at the experiences of other presidents in the past when these problems occurred around the president's aides and family members. In the case of President Kim Young-sam, for example, he publicly said that people around him who said they had become him would rather penalize him in relation to personnel matters. In that sense, those who use the Kim Gun-hee-related part politically or who are involved in such issues will be held seriously responsible, and if there is a legal other crime, they will be buried. That's why I think we should do more than apologize. In the case of former President Kim Dae Jung, right after he was elected, the so-called confidants of Donggyo-dong said we would not go. There are so many people around the president that it's a problem, and we need to check around Kim Gun-hee.Ma said, "Since the Kim Dae-nam issue is spreading after Myung Tae-kyun, we will deal with the issue strictly and sternly after the issue related to the president as well as the issue of Kim Geon-hee's apology." I think it should be accompanied by a declaration. [Anchor] You are saying that more special measures are needed than an apology from Mrs. Kim Gun-hee. [Kim Man-heum] When we talk about this, we only talk about the second annex or the special inspector, but I think we need a public announcement that draws a clear line from the president, not a related issue.

[Anchor]
So how about this question? As the so-called Kim Dae-nam transcript scandal continues to expand, didn't Chairman Han Dong-hoon order a fact-finding investigation at the party level despite the presidential office drawing a line? What do you think of Han's actions?

[Cho Cheong-rae]
First of all, I don't think this is a conflict between the government and the government. Didn't you do something that couldn't happen at the convention stage against the party leader? Then I think it's right to do a fact-finding survey on this. Since the transcripts have already been released through the media, the people are all watching it. Then, we will reveal the entire process or fact-finding and inform the public. In that way, it is right to block the possibility of an attack by the opposition party or a rift that causes reckless speculation or speculation. I think we need to quickly investigate and tie the knot. I'm looking at it like this. If you cover it up and bury it, suspicions can grow. So it should be clear that the entire ruling party is held accountable for self-harm politics. In my view, we need to investigate this quickly for a healthy government-government relationship or for trust between the president's office and the party leadership. I don't think this is the subject of a political game first of all.

[Anchor]
If you look at the transcript, you can see that he doesn't hesitate to talk about the president. Rather, some say that Yongsan should run fast. How do you think it should be resolved?

[Kim Man-heum]
That's right. I don't understand what this person is doing. If you do it, it's helpful to which side, but I don't know if it helped you show off yourself. I don't know if it helped him show off and exaggerate himself that if he sells Kim and the president talks carelessly, he is that close to him, but neither side is helping. As a result, one general anchor even used the expression of a stupid third-rate collaboration. I don't really understand either. First of all, there were some malicious issues related to representative Han, and we will discuss it later.And the issue of being hired for a very special position, which is also related to both of them separately.I think it's going to be both issues.

[Anchor]
We talked about hiring in a little while, and in the case of Na Kyung-won, she said, "I asked the basis of impeachment over the will of representative Han Dong-hoon to find out the truth." He also strongly criticized the Hong Joon Pyo market, saying, "It's a bit of a living thing." It seems to be spreading to conflict within the party.

[Cho Cheong-rae]
I understand that you are worried that representatives Han Dong-hoon and those around him are trying to investigate this issue because they are providing an excuse for the opposition to attack. By the way, if I just leave it as if nothing happened, will it be resolved? Then, if you don't explain anything to the people and you can't manage the process of why this person did this and why and what process he went through, will the people understand? So I understand why they're criticizing it. Don't make a bigger problem by raising a problem. It's about this, so as I said before, you have to investigate quickly and tie the knot quickly. The presidential office is also involved in this issue. The party's white paper special committee for the general election is also included, and the Yeouido Institute is now facing various suspicions related to the poll. So, from what I see, it's not a situation where you can bury it and cover it. I think it's better to find out quickly and explain it to the public quickly.

[Anchor]
This time, we'll also look at hiring. Wasn't former administrator Kim Dae-nam appointed as a full-time auditor of Seoul Guarantee Insurance last August when he had no financial experience? According to the transcript, there is a saying that I chose the position.
How do you see it?

[Kim Man-heum]
So, if such problems are not connected, it may lead to individual deviations, as Na Kyung-won said. But if you don't have any special power, as you know, if a person who majored in civil engineering chose to go without any other financial major or experience, wouldn't someone have been at the core of power or around power? So I agree with CEO Han Dong-hoon's argument that this part inevitably needs to be investigated. And Rep. Na Kyung-won and others said, "Isn't the special prosecutor opening the base?" Impeachment. However, I think this can be attacked as a problem within the party similar to self-harm in the party's leadership race, but when I point out this, it comes out when discussing inside a closed room, and it is impeachment to the entire party, and since it is an independent prosecutor, I wonder if they are thinking about the party. If the current power of the people is that the party is in a proper normal state, or if there is an elder who can take the center stage, this will not come out, but the conflict between the party and the president continues to intensify and the party is talking from one side to the other, that's how the current situation of people's power is understood.

[Anchor]
Earlier, he said to former administrator Kim Dae-nam that he might have a back seat. What do you think?

[Cho Cheong-rae]
By the way, aren't you the kind of person who comes out everywhere, curses the president, walks to talk to the first lady, and talks as she pleases? I could have said, "This is a person who is good at talking to someone from the left-wing media, and I'm going to stick it in whatever I want to go." So no one knows the authenticity. I don't have it, but I can't normally believe someone who spreads it like this. Then, a senior administrator who served in the presidential office may go to an affiliated agency after retirement because he knows the president's philosophy of governance or state administration well. Even in this case, he said he went there by plugging it in, but in fact, he may not know in what context or by what route he went through. So, in my opinion, I have to dig into this part to find out who did it, and there are articles like this that Congressman A and B denied about it. I think that there is no real truth, that only suspicions come out.

[Kim Man-heum]
I think this part will come out if we dig into it. Because if this is not an appropriate position, but an annual salary of 300 million won, wouldn't it be a position that can be arranged within the passport? I don't know if you have experience in this area, but if there was no special effect of power, would Kim Dae-nam's own puffed rice work as I said? I don't think that's the case. In that respect, I think something worked either way. Since there will probably be an inspection process soon afterwards, this problem will be subject to an inspection of the relevant construction, so even if we don't dig at least clearly in the process, I think there will be some kind of pod.

[Anchor]
In the presidential office, former administrator Kim expressed his position that he should decide on his own, so how would he make the decision, what do you expect?

[Cho Cheong-rae]
Do you think you can hold on? The location inside the Seoul Guarantee Corporation would be ridiculous. I don't know if you're trying to hang in there.Ma will not stand up for working inside first of all. Now, this issue can be discussed extensively in the National Assembly. In some cases, it's a situation where someone can file a complaint, so in my opinion, it's only a matter of time, but I won't be able to hold out in the end. You'd better resign before that.

[Anchor]
You'd better resign before that. What do you expect?

[Kim Man-heum]
You're going to resign, because there's an inspection of the government. Otherwise, since it's actually a public company, someone will be held accountable in the middle. Sooner or later, it will be because the period of time is intertwined with the national audit. Even if you try to blame yourself, the way to blame will be slightly different if you resign from your own problem, but if you exacerbate the problem because you are holding out, I think the opposition party is making it more likely to solve the problem.

[Anchor]
We will have to wait and see if we will make a decision and when that will be. The Democratic Party is also noisy with transcripts. This is the transcript of the Vice Minister of Peace Lee Hwa-young, which was released at the prosecutor's impeachment hearing on the 2nd, and I was also curious about the background of this transcript. How do you see if this can be recorded by a lawyer in the reception room and for what purpose?

[Kim Man-heum]
You can be a lawyer. It's usually possible to do both if you don't have an interview with a lawyer at other times. The lawyer recorded it, but how it leaked. So the lawyer recorded it and submitted it as evidence, and it's like whether he got it or not. So, the Democratic Party of Korea is saying that the prosecution leaked it and received it. The person in charge is not saying that right now. Representative Joo Jin-woo says that there are many other routes on this issue, so we should look at it. Usually, if you take issue with the leak path itself, isn't it when the content itself is at a disadvantage? In the past, during the Park Geun Hye administration, it was questioned who leaked it when there was a controversy, but in that sense, they exchanged battles and talked about different contents, but if this content itself is raised, it is currently disadvantageous to the Democratic Party of Korea or former lawmaker Lee Hwa-young.This is the situation. So, I think that's why the Democratic Party of Korea is going to a disadvantage in terms of content, considering the leak path first.

[Anchor]
You said that the Democratic Party is at a disadvantage, but the Democratic Party now claims that the transcript is distorted. You're asking me to find out how I got this, right?

[Cho Cheong-rae]
It's two things. It means that it's been squeezed, and one is that it was received from the prosecution. First of all, it's like this. I think Joo Jin-woo was a former prosecutor. Whenever the Democratic Party of Korea opens its mouth, it has a prosecution frame, whether it is the power of the people, the office of the president of Yoon Suk Yeol, or the government. Why would you simply get it from the prosecution and disclose it? I don't think anyone can do it that simple and monocytosis. And lawmaker Joo Jin-woo said this. Rep. Park Eun-jung, a former prosecutor, also had the recording file and reported it by Oh My News. So I told you that many people had it, and I didn't get it from the prosecution, but through a route where there was no problem with the source. So, if this is a violation of the Political Fund Act from the power of the people, I think it can be revealed during the prosecution's investigation if you file a complaint against Lee Jae-myung, former lieutenant governor Lee Hwa-young, or former chairman Kim Sung-tae. So the Democratic Party will know that. But that's what you're saying because you have to go on the offensive politically.

[Anchor]
It is expected that the details of the acquisition will be released gradually, and we will look into the contents. Although there is a limit to the situation where you can't hear the entire recording, there was a saying that you are afraid of Kim Sung-tae's revelation. Suspicions of political funding, payment of lawyers' expenses, and lobbying to the court have emerged. I don't think this is anything light. What do you think?

[Kim Man-heum]
Perhaps Kim Sung-tae will appear in court soon as a witness. So I think that even the contents that haven't been released before will come out in that process. Sooner or later, it will be a situation where we approach the truth. But in this regard, several people are involved together. Representative Joo Jin-woo said he would do something with the other three, Lee Jae-myung and Lee Hwa-young, but before that, even former representative Lee Hae-chan was talking about something related to the person involved, so in some cases, the issue may spread in a complicated way from now on. So, what kind of remarks will Kim Sung-tae present as a witness to the trial on the 18th? It is also noteworthy how he will tell reporters as he speaks.

[Anchor]
We have to wait and see what will be said in the trial on the 18th. As you said, the ruling party is now considering accusing Lee Jae-myung, Lee Hwa-young, and Kim Sung-tae of violating the Political Fund Act. How do you expect this?

[Cho Cheong-rae]
I think the People's Power Law Committee will file a complaint next week. Now, CEO Lee Jae-myung is on trial for four cases and 11 charges, and if this is added, one more will be added. Perhaps it's a new case separate from the existing trial and the existing case, so I think we can go separately. I don't think it's difficult to unravel the context of the post-war because this transcript was not made through an inaccurate route, but was submitted as evidence to the court by Lee Hwa-young, a lawyer for former lieutenant governor. And why don't the investigation authorities check the entire contents of the transcript first? I'll check and see which route it went out to. And we'll find out if that's true. So I think a new procedure will begin.

[Anchor]
I see. Now, let's talk about the by-elections, which are about 10 days away. Today, representative Han Dong-hoon went to Geumjeong, Busan, representative Lee Jae-myung went to Ganghwa, and representative Cho Kuk headed to Gokseong, which is a mini by-elections, but it means that much, right?

[Kim Man-heum]
That's right. In terms of the relative period of whether it means a lot or not, the power of the people is the first part that needs to change the situation at the moment. I've been doing it for a while, but I've been losing the election recently, so I'll try to make up for it in this by-election. That's what I have in mind. Also, in the case of the opposition party, there are two political parties, right? There are also the Democratic Party of Korea and the Cho Kuk Innovation Party, so it is Busan that is becoming a target area for cooperation. In the case of two regions in the Honam region, the rest of the regions are considered to have a chance of winning even if they compete with each other, and among them, the election of the head of Busan Geumjeong-gu is drawing attention. Looking at the various processes until last time, in the previous elections in this area of Geumjeong District Office, most of them have won except once, but what will happen now? However, since representative Cho Kuk is in Busan, he is trying to use his strengths to drive momentum, but what if the two parties unify each other is also noteworthy.

[Anchor]
You've pointed out the atmosphere of each party right now, but what can Vice Chairman Cho pick as the focus of the by-elections?

[Cho Cheong-rae]
First of all, it's about who wins the head of Ganghwa County. That's a strong area for conservative candidates. Since 2000, conservative independents have been elected four times in elections, and three times, from the National Power Party to the National Power. That's how Yangsan is going right now. Ganghwa-gun has four candidates, two independents, and a conservative tendency. Next, there are four Democratic candidates, and the Cho Kuk Innovation Party did not nominate them. So it seems to me that it is now going to a competition between candidates for the power of the people and independent candidates. A bigger point to watch than that is whether the Cho Kuk Innovation Party can make a bridgehead in Honam. By-elections usually have a turnout of around 40% and less than 40%, so it is easy for a party with a strong regional base and then a party with a strong organizational base to win. But if you look at the results of the current poll, it's very close. If the Cho Kuk Innovation Party wins at least one party, this will mean that Honam public sentiment toward the Democratic Party will be violated, and the Cho Kuk Innovation Party, which continues to pursue its status as an alternative party for the Democratic Party when it becomes difficult for the Democratic Party, will solidify its position as an alternative party. So, I don't actually mark it now, but what the Democratic Party is paying close attention to is two regions in Honam. The rest of the Geumjeong or Ganghwa county elections will not be easy for the Democratic Party of Korea, the strategic unit. I think so.

[Kim Man-heum]
However, in the last general election, the Honam area overwhelmed the proportional vote, and the representative of the country won an overwhelming vote. At that time, the constituency vote was divided by the proportional vote and went to the Democratic Party of Korea and the rest of the Cho Kuk Innovation Party. This time, it is a gauge of what will happen in such an election to select the head of a local government. The cases that have been done individually before and the cases that have been done by large parties may be different. In a small election, some new political parties can aim for once, and attention is being paid to whether the Cho Kuk Innovation Party will be able to create a wind in the Democratic Party's long-running election to the current local group leader election. It's probably not going to be easy.

[Anchor]
I think we have to wait and see where Honam's votes are headed. How about the head of Busan Geumjeong-gu? Isn't this a conservative garden? If it is taken away from here, there is a prospect that CEO Han Dong-hoon's leadership could be damaged.

[Cho Cheong-rae]
If you lose, there could be a blow, if you do. However, this is the area where the Democratic Party candidate won the election once in the 2018 election. In Busan, the Democratic Party has the right level of votes. That's why the Cho Kuk Innovation Party and the Democratic Party are trying to unify the candidates. It will be announced around 5 p.m. tomorrow. In the current three-way race, it is clear that the opponent should win or lose, which I do not think is possible, but if the Democratic Party of Korea and the Cho Kuk Innovation Party unify the candidates, this will reach a close level and the margin of error. . . It is true that it can reach the margin of error in the opinion poll. But as I said earlier, this is not a general national election. Because it is a by-elections, voters from parties with a strong local base and a strong organizational base are likely to go to the polls. So, even if the poll numbers are within the margin of error, when you actually open the lid after the vote, there won't be a big variable in determining the outcome, I see it like this.

[Kim Man-heum]
In that sense, they are large political parties that are currently in Mercury's position. In the case of the Cho Kuk Innovation Party, it's worth trying. In particular, it doesn't seem simple whether there is a new region to break through in the Democratic Party right now. Because the Honam area is already a so-called stronghold of the Democratic Party, and it could be a situation that could lead to a third party in the competition, every election is noted, but especially this time, the Democratic Party of Korea seems to be a little nervous.

[Anchor]
Lastly, how are you analyzing the four election conditions in general? I'll finish after hearing from both of you.

[Cho Cheong-rae]
I think the power of the people and the Democratic Party will do well. Two places, two places. Due to the nature of the by-elections, it is not easy for the Cho Kuk Innovation Party or independent parties to squeeze in gaps. I look at it like this.

[Kim Man-heum]
I see the same thing. The Cho Kuk Party is trying anew once in certain regions, especially in the Honam area, but last time, when it was divided into proportional and regional districts, there was a case where the second vote went to the Cho Kuk Innovation Party, but this time, it will go to the big party. Currently, they are aiming to unify various candidates, but in general, even if they unify the candidates, they will go toward the Democratic Party. In this regard, as Vice Chairman Cho said, I think it will be a situation where large political parties generally take 2:2.

[Anchor]
I see. I think we need to continue to see the situation in the future. So far, we have looked at political issues with Cho Chung-rae, former vice president of the Yeouido Institute, and Kim Man-heum, former head of the National Assembly's legislative investigation department. Thank you for talking today.