"My eyes are dark, but my heart is bright. I can see myself." 5060 The reason why relationships are hard.

[News FM Lee Ik-seon Choi Soo-young Issue & People]

□ Broadcast date and time: November 5, 2024 (Tue)
□ Host: Lee Ik-seon, Choi Soo-young
□ Cast: Professor Lee Ho-seon of Soongsil Cyber University

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information.

◇Lee Ik-seon: After lunch, have a cup of tea and join us. Issue & People's Small Drawing Room Salon de Sangam Today, he's called a mentor for middle-aged people. We have Professor Lee Ho-seon from Soongsil Cyber University. Welcome.

■Lee Ho-seon: Hello. Nice to meet you. I'm Lee Sun-ho from the counseling world.

◇Lee Ik-seon: Where do you get that pleasant energy?

■Lee Ho-seon: I eat well. First of all, eat well, eat well, eat often, cheer up, and eat well. Sleep well, too. And I like to go around like this, too. Everything is just at peace.

◆Choi Soo-young: I can't find any shade or depression. The sentence you wrote down on your SNS profile is so pleasant that I want to introduce it to our listeners, but it's very short and powerful. "Tough things to others." It's really refreshing.

■Lee Ho-seon: Actually, many people are disappointed when they see their profiles. No, how can a person who is counseling touch his or her heart do this? Rather, I wish he or she would write, "The hard work is for me." Then let me tell you this. Why me? ’ To tell you this, it's not like we should pass on the hard work to others. It's important to share the weight of my life with others and to convey these difficulties to others. When you look at people who work hard on one thing, there are many cases where everyone else's luggage is connected. So, I feel like my life is really drooping and I keep going down to the floor, so how good would it be for someone to take care of the hard work at a time like this? So I talked with you in that sense.

◇ Lee Ik-seon: Very ingenious and good. He also got a call on the KTX. Lectures, classes, broadcasts. How do you spend your daily life? Is it like you're giving a lecture seven times a week?

■Lee Ho-seon: I think I do it a little more than that. As I said, I like eating, sleeping, and working. I like to go around and do things. I'm always thankful that we can promote like this. In fact, after a certain period of time, we may be remembered by someone, but it's highly likely to be forgotten, and we can work at the same time, and we're very grateful if someone calls us. That's why I don't care about the fire and work hard. And above all, my husband likes it because he works hard.

◆Choi Soo-young: I thought there were only firefighters who are professional soldiers who are not afraid of water fires, but you're not, are you?

■ Lee Ho-seon: I'm a mind firefighter.

◇Lee Ik-seon: Today in the Salon de Sangam, I'd like to hear some of the hard-working middle-aged people's concerns that are being run over here and supported over there. You have a lot of things. We also look forward to the stories of those who have concerns in various relationships, such as spouse relationships, relationships with parents, relationships with easily covered children, and conflicts arising from financial problems.

◆Choi Soo-young: If you say that you're busy in reverse, it means that there are many people looking for you. That's why there are a lot of middle-aged people who want to be hurt and comforted, but after going there, did some people get hurt about something and find a solution?

■Lee Ho-seon: Usually, the place I go to is the lecture site. The people who come to me are at the counseling site. We can share it like this, but among those who come to the counseling site, those who often say we are middle-aged have many difficulties in life and communication spaces. What's clear is that it's focused on two things. One is the current imminent problem first. Another thing is that I have a great fear of the future. Rather, as we move on to middle age, what I was like in the past and it was difficult, and these topics are actually analyzed and only when really difficult problems are connected to the past. If you look at most of them, there are three sandwiches where the middle-aged people press from the top and come up from the bottom, and the soup comes out when the middle is pressed straight. So, first of all, the child problem is very big. It's really hard for your child to do whatever he wants. The spouse problem is really big. In particular, as we are over 5060 these days, we have a lot of graduation marriages, a lot of divorces, and at the same time, we have a lot of infidelity. A couple who bring these elements. Also, my parents are still alive. While they are alive, any relationship with them is very important, but what nursing home they should live in, how to prevent their families from taking care of themselves alone, and how to relieve the depression caused by this process, plus money and employment are the most common problems these days. There are so many days to live, and despite that, there are more people who haven't prepared yet. But these days, middle-aged and elderly employment is really the number one business and at the same time a space that makes the present and the future so important to my life, so I have a lot of worries about getting a job and requests.

◆Choi Soo-young: It's a variety of concerns.

◇Lee Ik-seon: Then, don't you have any concerns, too? Is there one of your concerns that you've overcome recently?

■Lee Ho-seon: I keep gaining weight.

◇Lee Ik-seon: It's not middle-aged, it's across all ages.

■Lee Ho-seon: This year is the most likely year of my life that I have ever had a physical crisis. So I have heart surgery in February and I have another surgery to do in the first half of next year, so my goal this year is to check my body. It's not my body. Let's look at the body. Overall, changes in the body that I haven't experienced before come very dramatic, but when the body collapses, it all collapses. So this kind of body care is the area I've been most interested in lately.

◆Choi Soo-young: So your relationship with your body has become the most important?

■ Line Lee: Yes, that's right.

◇ Interest line: So let's focus on the marital problem among the many issues. Couples in their 5s and 60s, so middle-aged couples... which couples are coming to the worst?

■Lee Ho-seon: First of all, relationships are a habit. When these couples are in middle age, they usually say, "I've lived for 10 years, I've lived for 20 years, I've lived for more than 30 years." If you look at people who say that the relationship is set in that frame, they answer A and respond to B, and they always exchange AB methods. So there are a lot of these relationship habits that don't work out even though the old methods come out and try to change. There are also fighting habits in this relationship. And the habit of eating, comforting each other, or pushing each other away are all often repeated or intensified in the way we've done before. But the problem is that when we are older than the middle-aged, the marital relationship becomes very bad. Because the arbitration target is gone. The children grew up and left. And there's no reason to put up with it because we're not in front of the kids anymore. Furthermore, women are well aware of their rights and divorce these days. So, it's not that my husband can't split his wealth, and when he goes to society, he comes home, but there are many areas that are open to women, and he can't adjust well with his newly retired husband, so I endured the so-called "retired husband syndrome" in the past, but now I don't put up with it. Therefore, the evaporation of these mediators has a very important effect. And now that self-realization is really important, I'm going to end my conflict with you and find my own happiness. There are a lot of people who make these choices very quickly. So I think these factors may be the reason why we are much more sensitive to marital fighting and making fights more frequent and stronger than in the past.

◆Choi Soo-young: You said that habits are very important. Don't we often use habitual expressions? Someone gives me a condition that the word means habit is the enemy, but it doesn't sound unusual to me because it doesn't work well if we don't get out of habit.

■ Line Lee: That's right. I'm sure there are a lot of people who are wondering if they can get out of their habits in this life, but I want to say this. My habits don't change drastically. However, many people come to the counseling site to tell you that it will change little by little, and why when we watch TV, I was like this when I was young. I think I'm still like this because I suffered like this. There are a lot of people who say this. I have the influence that childhood has had on us. But this is only 30 percent. The rest is 70% of life is self-educated. I think it's the process of choosing good things and doing a kind of sculpture that I make as I go along. That's why it's the same with the marital habits. What's really characteristic between a couple is that one thing is, you can't. Young couples are no better. You don't want to lose perfectly, why do I have to lose to you, why do I have to yield to you? These are the majority of cases. In the case of older couples, I think the person who always makes concessions will, of course, give up, but they don't give up anymore. This is an area where relationship habits can actually change. Just as the person who gave up in the past does not yield, especially in relationship habits, if the person who gives up changes to the point A, the reaction of this person B changes to the point A. So if I want to have a change in a relationship and change the relationship that I brought habitually, I can't change you in my next life. I'm quick to change one in this life. There's something called the butterfly effect. If you change it this much, at some point next time, you'll go to the other side of the world and cause a typhoon. But it's not easy this way, and there are many cases where the spouse doesn't change well and doesn't respond. That's why we're consulting.

◇Lee Ik-seon: Then please give me an example.

■Lee Ho-seon: I met him yesterday because he said I can use this case now. Yes, I met him yesterday, but he doesn't listen to me. That's why I told you. When I asked what he didn't listen to, as soon as my husband came home, there was a bathroom on the left, and I wanted him to take off his clothes and wash his body in the bathroom, but he just came in with socks on without washing at all.

◇ Lee Ik-seon: Isn't that normal?

■ Line number two: It's normal. That's why I said that. My husband wants me to wash up and come back home. Did he wash up before that? They still didn't wash up and came in. So, what do you think I should do in the future? They said they don't think they'll wash up in the future. But he said he couldn't endure the past. How is it now? He said he can't stand it now. Compared to the past, I asked how much longer I can endure it now, and he said he seems a little used to it. It's a little better than in the past. That's what I told you. This is because when I think about it, there are things that were upsetting in the past and now, but there is no one with the same reaction. Sometimes it's a little bit strong, sometimes it's a little bit less. Then, it depends on a series of situations, but people's interpretations can be different. So this couple has started counseling in earnest. This is to change their lifestyle habits and change their mental habits together. So what kind of counseling my husband is going to have now is that it would be good to wash up and come in, but you can't wash everything. So I'll just wash my feet and come in.

◇ Profit line: But I don't know. Didn't she ask for too much? Usually, we can wash our hands when we go in, but don't we wash everything from the beginning?

■ Lee Ho-seon: That's right. He's a little obsessive, but every couple in the world has a strong demand for each other. In that case, if you create a point where you want to live even if a part of it is changed because not everyone can change, and you can practice the minimum point, this house is very likely to change in the future. So if I change a small angle earlier, a typhoon could happen next time. If it doesn't change at all, I'm telling you that the next life will be difficult.

◆Choi Soo-young: Now that we've talked about couples, shall we talk about our children? Then the child is on another level of relationship with the spouse. It's okay when you're young, but when you grow up, you become far away. What advice do you think you need?

■Lee Ho-seon: When I raise my child, I actually call the period between the child and the parent when the parent gives birth and raises the child as a parent. But I think that parental age is divided into four stages. One is now stubborn, sensitive, and then half-life. Then there's a receiver and I divide it like that. Stubborn period is still adolescence when you move away from children very slowly and have a lot of contact with each other. And I think half-life is a period of acceptance when conflict decreases and contact with each other decreases a lot, and when children begin to understand their parents when they reach their parents' age. We're going to go with these four things, but actually, the fact that we're becoming middle-aged means that the kids grew up a little bit. It means that the kids are growing up and building their own world. A lot of people ask me how to get along with the kids. But this is a desperate need for recognition and a parent's desire to be loved. Because when we were young, we thought we loved our children, but in fact, we were loved again while living with them. I was very satisfied, but when the kids grow up, they don't even contact me. And even sometimes they feel ashamed of me. There are many children who are ashamed of their parents. You may not like your parents' fashion style, or you may not like my parents' poverty. Maybe you don't like my parents' manners, and do you think you'd like a abusive parent? I don't like it. It's not just parents who want to learn good, proud, and cool. There are also a lot of parents who are really stupid. Do we have any wisdom that parents who are not satisfied and rather give me hurt, pain, pain, and fear grow older later? It's not like that. Mature doesn't just give you years of experience, but a lot of things are learned and made into decent adults, and if there are people who can't do this, they can't have a good relationship with their children. But even in a house with good relationships, the children actually make their own world like rice soup. If they don't create their own world, that's more worrisome. Rather, even if parents are a little disappointed, the children escaped our showers and built their own world, and then raised them well. However, if you desperately want to have a relationship with them and get closer, the first principle is to do it like a bachelor next door. The bachelor next door is always nice. Even if the next-door bachelor is a little negligent in greeting us, he's not disappointed, so it's a thank you in itself. But there are people who think, "Do parents and children have to do that?" The key point of what I'm saying is don't be too upset if they neglect their parents a little bit because they are busy living their world growing up. They are doing well. So I'm telling you that it's a topic to be relieved. Yes, nevertheless, I keep contacting the kids because I'm frustrated. You have to work on it. Because you've all experienced it. Imagine your mother-in-law calls you three or four times a day. It's a really difficult topic, and I understand how you feel, but it's hard. So what I say is, set up the alarm. Set an alarm. My father and mother call me at 8 p.m. on Friday. We do this several times every Friday at 8 p.m. Then if you do it 7-8 times, my parents don't call me when it's 8 p.m. on Friday, right? There's an emergency. What's wrong? What's wrong with you? What's wrong with you? So the way we get used to each other and get into each other's existence is to always go and touch him at a certain time. Then, he will remember my existence for that time. If there is a point of love, I think children these days are intrusive if their parents get too far inside. Parents also think it's an invasion, so I'll set an alarm like this and call you at 8 p.m. on Friday, so I'll call you at this time, so please take it at this time. If you tell me in advance, these days, MZ generations shouldn't let their parents open the door. You can't make an appointment in advance and change it. I think it would be good to use these parts.

◇Lee Ik-seon: What is the most frequent specific difficulty between parents and children?

■Lee Ho-seon: First of all, friends these days have a lot of topics. There are a lot, but they don't go out and don't get married. It's called a kangaroo tribe, but to express it in my words, it's a straw tribe. There are friends who don't get married and stick next to their parents and put straws in their parents' pensions, and this isn't just about them. Since we're already a knit person, even friends who don't have any intention of getting a job talk up to 400,000 to 700,000. But this is a concern for this society and at the same time a concern for the family. Because there are many cases where it hurts so much that my child is now giving up on himself even though he has learned so much and has good enough capabilities. The other thing is that it's okay to keep hugging them like this. Let's say that's possible. However, this eventually leads to the bankruptcy of parents in their old age. So, it's so sad to see my competent child sitting down, and at the same time, I'm worried about my old age, and I'm angry because I'm looking at him, and yet I have to feed him again, and there are many complicated feelings, so there are many questions about how I can let my children go. It's a really difficult topic, and it's a topic that society should all think about.

◇Lee Ik-seon: But it's really difficult to do this when your child doesn't live alone, but like when you were young, your mom has to cook for you, your mom has to do laundry, and your mom has to clean it.

■Lee Ho-seon: It's totally difficult. I think housewives also have professional housewives and amateur housewives. Amateur housewives are not interested in household chores or children at all, but professional housewives are really struggling with their housekeeping and raising their children, and this is a person who checks my seat after struggling with their finances. If my child hasn't found it yet, and I don't think they're going to do a big deal with it in the future, you have to change your mind. The way I recommend it is to set a deadline. Get out by this time. I'll apply by this time. So if you set a deadline, kids can be a little more sensitive than when they don't. Until then, I'm going to try again, and my second child will not go out for the next life no matter how much I look at him. There are people like this. If we become that kind of friend, from now on, through the lyrics at home, the lyrics are a kind of labor, right? So I have to handle this role and pay for my meal as a family member. But the ones who didn't order it before are still young. So I have big friends who raise them without having to run errands once or having water on them once. But it can be then, but it's different now. The kids have mustaches right now. Then you'll get gray hair later. If this is enough, I think if you can play a role as an adult, you should be given a little obligation so that you have the right to eat with pride and safety at home. And I have to do a part-time job. You have to make a living for yourself.

◆Choi Soo-young: What kind of red lines can you tell me that parents should not or should not pass on to their children?

■Lee Ho-seon: First of all, don't take a double bath. Double swear. These days, people in their 20s and 30s are really cursing a lot, but there are still parents who swear a lot even in their 50s and 60s. It's not even a curse to your children. But do you want your child to go out of business? It's as if the kids are achieving some kind of prophecy. So, first of all, you need to achieve your age as an adult and some of your children's expectations as an adult. Whether we call it virtue or grown-up, we shouldn't curse. Heidegger talks about this. Language is the home of existence, and you can see what kind of person this person is by looking at what this person is saying. There is a line between my family and each other that should not be crossed. It is very important not to curse what parents should not do especially between parents and children. Secondly, I can't tell my grown children what to do. So I tell them to use the kingpin effect a lot. Whether it's a child or an older child, a kingpin is not the front when we bowl with 10 pins, but the one right behind it collapses when we hit it. This is called kingpin, and while living with my children, I don't know anything else in my house, but I have to do this. There should be one principle like this. If you do everything else well, you can only nag the kids and don't keep anything. If there are a lot of rules, that's not a rule.

◇Lee Ik-seon: For example, if I had to pick one, what would it be?

■Lee Ho-seon: For example, in my case, I like all these things, so I have to go to church no matter what. If you go to church, you have pocket money and everything. But can't you do that? We don't provide any services. And for some houses, you have to clean up your room. So, I heard Jordan Peterson is the 12 laws of life, so I talk about these good things a lot, but I really like these two things. I'm also emphasizing how to straighten your shoulders. Cleaning the second room. Children who organize their own rooms also organize their own lives. It's very important, so my own guidelines. I call this the kingpin effect, and I think it would be good to use the kingpin effect.

◇Lee Ik-seon: I'll ask you more because I was passing by the couple's problems earlier. I think you briefly mentioned that the biggest problem in marital problems is money.

■ Lee Ho-seon: Technically speaking, I was saying that money now divides our emotions or our roles. In fact, the middle-aged couple counseling site is originally a reservoir of tears. It's a place where people who are in pain come. So all of these things can't tell all the stories of our daily lives. However, if I can say something within the topic, there are many topics of loss that are really unfortunate for people who usually come to the middle-aged counseling site. The loss is many things. There are cases where parents have been lost and sometimes children have been lost. Also, the so-called empty nest, where children are married and left, sometimes called retirement, has been lost. We have so many themes of loss, but this society does not mourn these people. However, mourning remains to be done by individuals, and I thought it would be okay because it's up to this individual and everyone goes through it, but later on, there are many cases where life gets tattered as it explodes all at once in several places, including divorce and many other things. I would like to say that this is a loss when looking at such topics together, but in some cases, I say this loss. We're having a wedding. If you're divorced, you'll have to have a divorce ceremony. I'm the one who claims that. Publicly, if we had such a socially recognized approval, I would like to have a divorce ceremony, even if it's just the two of us. So it's very important to minimize each other's pain and suffering, but it's very important to draw a mole like this. It's over now. I'm done now. Good job. It was painful, but I came this far. It's a space for counseling that plays this role. So, it's a place of pain, a place of tears, but it's also a place to end a period. In many ways, I lost so much in my life, but this is too painful for me and I can't control it. When that's the case, I recommend you come to the counseling site and tell the whole story of this life, but I recommend you to mark a period for this case.

◇Lee Ik-seon: The listener said, "I'm a fan of Professor Lee Ho." Every time you come out on TV, you become pretty and succeed in a hard diet, so you are maintaining it and I want to emulate your willpower. It's refreshing to talk about cider. ’ Another listener said, "It's a shock to be ashamed of your parents, but I understand nodding after hearing the explanation of the bachelor next door." ' There's one more. "I heard it because I'm a kangaroo person, and it scared me so much. They say they're going to pay for the meal, but I think they're going to get upset.

■Lee Ho-seon: The last person you mentioned has a pretty heart. I think I'll be independent soon.

◆Choi Soo-young: Now let's talk about the middle-aged. As we get older, we say that we are lonely, and it's meaningless to live, but why do you feel this way?

■Lee Ho-seon: It's a waste at this time of year. Because part of the body seems to be falling off. Also, I can see the front when it comes to roles. When you see the front, you see the end. And now, the children are all grown up, so my role is not like it was in the past, and we're getting shorter. It also increases wrinkles. I can't even see your eyes. And I don't think I can hear well either. Many of these experiences happen simultaneously in middle age, and we change our bodies, change our minds, change our relationships, change our money, change our prospects for the future, come all at once. Then, we do what we call reflection every moment. Yes, so what's left in my hands right now? When I look back on myself in middle age, I think I've lived very hard, but when I don't have anything left, the reason why Benjamin Burton's clock goes back is because he says, "I think I've lived a long time, but I can't remember." I think I worked hard, but I don't think there's much left. I think we can probably call this a feeling of emptiness. When I see topics that many middle-aged people come to, I feel strangely depressed. You say this a lot, but if you listen carefully, I think I've worked hard, but I think I have to produce this production that doesn't seem to have anything left of me, so the results of achievement should be sufficient, but looking at me who hasn't, I think I'm too empty-handed when I objectify myself like this. It's a time to really reflect on the emptiness that comes with that, but it's also a painful topic.

◆Choi Soo-young: Now that I'm middle-aged, I'm in crisis. We talk about things like this. But I really sympathized with the saying that it was always a crisis, but I just became middle-aged.

■Lee Ho-seon: My eyes are dark now that I'm middle-aged, but my mind is bright, so I can see myself.

◇Lee Ik-seon: My eyes are brightened. You're right. We talk a lot about today being the first day of the rest of our lives. So when I hear that, I sometimes have hope. I'll take this time to say this to our listeners. Is there anything you want to say?

■Lee Ho-seon: We're talking about the middle-aged... fall season. It's not just autumn of life, but it's really autumn right now. If you don't enjoy it this fall, you won't be able to enjoy it next fall. You will probably get better if you take the habit of enjoying the autumn, which remains with me and is given to me, even though it is light. Most importantly, go out in this fall. If you go out and let this fall that I meet come into my life, this fall will never be empty.

◆Choi Soo-young: You came out in the fall this time, but you came out seasonally, so I would like you to give seasonal advice on marital relationships and family relationships.

◇Lee Ik-seon: Salon de Sangam Today, I heard about the emotional difficulties experienced by middle-aged people with Professor Lee Ho-seon of Soongsil Cyber University. Thank you, professor.