[Politics ON] People's Power, Dangge 'self-destruction'...Minjoo considers postponing 're-decision'

■ Host: Youngsoo Kim anchor
■ Starring: Park Yong-chan, chairman of the party's cooperation committee, Kim Han-gyu, member of the Democratic Party of Korea,


* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN NewsON] when quoting.

[Anchor]
Let's start <Politics On> looking at the outside and inside of politics. Today, Park Yong-chan, chairman of the party's cooperation committee, and Kim Han-kyu, member of the Democratic Party of Korea, will join Yeongdeungpo, the People's Power. Please come in. Please show us the first keyword. This is the image of CEO Lee Jae-myung. a reincarnation of life Representative Lee Jae-myung, who was sentenced to one year in prison and two years of probation in the first trial for violating the Public Official Election Act. In the first trial of the perjury teacher case, there is an analysis that he was acquitted and took a breather. Political reactions were mixed. We'll listen to your voice.

Following yesterday, the evaluations of the ruling and opposition parties were sharply divided today. The first trial of perjury teacher charge was found not guilty. How did you expect this judgment of the court?

[Park Yongchan]
I didn't expect that at all. I think it was a very ridiculous ruling on a very, very obvious issue. A lot of people are asking. Perjury is guilty, but why is perjury teacher innocent? The court failed to provide a clear explanation for these questions yesterday. As you know, Kim Jin-sung was in an unknown position when the prosecutor impersonation incident occurred in 2002. At that time, to prepare for the local elections in a month, I went to former Mayor Kim Byung-ryang's election camp and was preparing. Therefore, it is a case in which representative Lee Jae-myung gave perjury to a person who was not aware of the prosecutor impersonation case at the time, in other words, a case in which he did not know the situation at all. Let me give you a quick example. Didn't CEO Lee Jae-myung call Kim Jin-sung twice? It wasn't enough, so I delivered the summary of the argument. I also delivered that on a very outstanding Telegram. In addition, when Kim Jin-sung was writing an affidavit to be submitted to the trial, Lee Jae-myung's lawyer even explained to the effect that he wanted to write more specifically about the affidavit. In addition, representative Lee Jae-myung's lawyer sends a witness questionnaire and a questionnaire to Kim Jin-sung. How can you say this is unintentional?

[Anchor]
First of all, the court judged that all of what you said was not intentional. There are many talks about the judgment of the first trial, but most of the Democratic Party of Korea said it was a mistake. Representative Kim is a lawyer, so I think he knows better. Where do you think the court emphasized?

[Kim Hangyu]
From the perspective of the court, I believe that it is not appropriate for this case to become a criminal case. Because perjury usually carries a sentence of six months to a year and a half in prison if convicted. That's what the sentencing guidelines say. However, even though he said he did several perjury, he said he was fined. So, from the perspective of the court, he says he perjured himself and confesses why, so he convicts perjunction, but he was not acquitted because it was recognized as important evidence in the case of Lee Jae-myung's Public Official Election Act when he was governor of Gyeonggi Province. So, I think there was a basic perception that the sentence was formally sentenced, but this was a matter that could be recognized as a perjury teacher. And I don't think many people have been tried in criminal cases.

When you go to trial, of course, this is the testimony I need while recruiting witnesses, do you remember? And we're making this argument, so refer to it. I'm sending all these data. If this is called a perjury teacher, the lawyers in the criminal case should all become perjury teachers because they prepared for the trial when the witness made a mistake or talked about something different from his memory. So, just because you asked us to testify at the trial or that this testimony is in our favor does not mean that you will be a perjury teacher unconditionally. That's why I think it's widely recognized the right to defend.

[Anchor]
People's Power rejected Lee Jae-myung's records during the warrant review last year.There is a part that the suspicion of perjury teacher appears to have been clarified. So I thought there was a high possibility that he would be guilty again this time. But what and how did the court see it differently then and now?

[Kim Hangyu]
That's why it was confirmed that Kim Jin-sung gave perjury. Then, I think the court that conducted a warrant review at the time said that there was a basic explanation, that is, a probability, because there was this fact that I asked this person. This court has a specific view. I asked for such a request, but the legal explanation and proof are different because I have seen in detail whether Lee Jae-myung really recognized whether he would make false statements and whether he was actually aware of specific perjury by participating in such a process before testifying. Since the clarification is a brief confirmation of the probability and the proof is clearly confirmed as evidence that can be found guilty in a criminal trial, the court of this trial has seen it differently than the warrant. [Anchor] Okay. In the case of CEO Lee Jae-myung, there are five trials. The charges of violating the Public Official Election Act were found guilty in the first trial ten days ago. So, CEO Lee Jae-myung has overcome a crisis.Ma says in today's newspaper that most of them are mountains beyond mountains, and there are many mountains to cross in the future. What do you think CEO Lee Jae-myung will do in the future?

[Kim Hangyu]
I don't think it's going to change much. Trials have no effect on us, even though we criticize and like them when we come to a conclusion in politics. He's making his point in a partisan way. I understand that CEO Lee Jae-myung humbly respects the ruling and will prepare for the rest of the trial. It's a mountain over a mountain, but what would you do? You have to move on. However, the Supreme Court ruling takes a long time, and the other three out of the five trials are hard to predict when the first trial will take place, so these two trials were very important because they believed that the two rulings now would be at least the Supreme Court rulings before the 2027 presidential election. So in a way, one is guilty, one is innocent.

[Anchor]
Some media interpreted it as one win and one loss.

[Kim Hangyu]
You have to watch it until the end. Still, if he was convicted by yesterday, it would have been very difficult for supporters, representative Lee Jae-myung, and our politicians, but there is still hope, so I hope that the Public Official Election Act will also make a wise judgment at the appeal trial.

[Anchor]
The prosecution said they would appeal immediately. I think CEO Lee Jae-myung has overcome a crisis for now. There was an observation that if representative Lee Jae-myung was found guilty again this time, it could be shaken greatly. [Park Yongchan] Politically, that's how you see it. But I didn't think that I was over a point, I took a breather, I was revived, and I didn't see it that way. Deep and deep into the swamp of hope torture, that's what I see. So, I put it simply, so I had false expectations. As you know now, the first trial ruling on the 15th, one year in prison, and two years of probation, didn't it come out? Three months after this ruling, the second trial and appeal trial will come out soon. What will be the verdict in that appeal trial? Wouldn't it be considered that the criminal charge is quite serious to hit one year in prison and two years of probation?

In particular, if you look at the Supreme Court precedents now, the Supreme Court is also looking at the publication of false facts for the purpose of election with considerable weight. So in 2020, we raised the sentencing standard from a fine of 2 million won to 8 million won. Isn't the standard for invalid election penalty 1 million won? However, the minimum penalty is 2 million won. As such, the publication of false information for the purpose of election is considered very serious. Therefore, if Representative Lee Jae-myung gets the same suspended prison sentence in the second trial and appeal trial, there will be a reality that is almost impossible to recover. I think so. So, the Baekhyun-dong case, Daejang-dong case, and the remittance case to North Korea have been requested by 100 to 400 witnesses. Therefore, it has to go through a very long and long process. Therefore, the appeals court ruling that will come out in January or April of next year is very important, I think so.

[Anchor]
There is also an evaluation that the Democratic Party of Korea will further strengthen its representative Lee Jae-myung's unilateral system with the acquittal of the first trial. Representative Lee Jae-myung said he would do his best for the lives of the people in the future after the first trial's acquittal. Also, I hope it will become a politics that coexists rather than killing and stepping on each other. Some analysts say that they will be more active in people's livelihoods because they said let's do politics that saves people. What do you think CEO Lee Jae-myung will take?

[Park Yongchan]
That's what you said yesterday. Let's not kill politics, but let's do politics that saves the people. But from what I can see, it's just words. Isn't the rental offensive against the power of our people showing signs of strengthening? Are you lawmaker Yang Mun-seok? Now we must march on the path of impeachment, didn't we say that? In this state, people are calling for people's livelihoods, but in fact, CEO Lee Jae-myung has only extended his life by about three months, that's what I think.

[Anchor]
Lee Jae-myung's life expectancy has been extended by three months. He evaluated that he would be a hope adviser. What do you think?

[Kim Hangyu]
I think the case of the Public Official Election Act is not a very technical matter in the appeal trial, but the higher court judges will see some of the implications of this law. So, is it appropriate to cut off the life of a politician, especially a powerful politician in the opposition party, by playing golf or cutting the picture in the middle? You have to answer these general questions from the people. Unlike the first trial ruling, the judges of the appeals court will consider that part as well. I don't think sentencing is a problem, it's a question of whether you're going to be innocent or guilty in this case. As you said, it is difficult for the sentencing itself to change easily, but in my opinion, I have such expectations because I think it is a matter that can be sufficiently acquitted.

As we all expect, Chairman Lee Jae-myung said that a fine of 3 million won came out of the appeals court of the Public Official Election Act when he was governor of Gyeonggi-do Province, and that his political life is now dead, but since the Supreme Court once destroyed it, the trial is not so technical, and the conclusion of the case is a reasonable result to completely deprive politicians of their right to run for election. If you look at the results from this, I think you can be acquitted enough if you look at the case again with the conviction of innocence in the appeal trial.

[Anchor]
Apart from the expectations and prospects of the second trial, the Democratic Party is now pushing for the revision of the Public Official Election Act. It's not a party-level revision, is it?

[Kim Hangyu]
It's not even a revision at the party level. It's about future events. Rep. Park Hee-seung and a judge-turned-lawmaker submitted them in the past, but they are deprived of their right to run for election due to violations of the Public Official Election Act, especially because of false facts, and there are many opportunities for candidates to speak not only in various publications but also in debates and broadcasts. Is it right to end their political lives with a mistake in detailed phrases and words?

[Anchor]
The standard for the loss of parliamentary seats or deprivation of the right to run for election is now 1 million won, but I don't think it's going to be raised to 10 million won.

[Kim Hangyu]
That's right. So it's not a past event, but it's in the supplementary provisions that it applies to new events in the future, and it's in the draft.

[Anchor]
The Democratic Party of Korea is criticizing the election law amendment and some lawmakers' push, but the power of the people is strongly criticized.

[Park Yongchan]
Is this lawmaker Park Hee-seung? In the supplementary provisions, it is said that it cannot be applied to previous cases, but in fact, this is the acquisition of representative Lee Jae-myung and the revision of the expedient bill, which I believe is the case. The supplementary provisions can be deleted in the process of discussing the bill. In addition, even if the supplementary provisions are not deleted, if the election law is revised in the future, the court will have no choice but to take into account the purpose of the law revision. Therefore, there is a high possibility that the representative sentence will be lowered below the nullification of the election,/ and I believe so.

[Anchor]
I see. The court will judge it in the second trial. That's all for the battle between the ruling and opposition parties. Let's move on to the next issue. Please show me.

The next issue is the controversy over the bulletin board of the People's Power Party and the intensifying conflict between pro-Yoon and pro-Lee. CEO Han Dong-hoon, who has been quiet for a while, began to speak out. How is it going?

[Park Yongchan]
I can't help but tell you that we are so sorry and frustrated about this incident. As I encountered this incident, I once again realized that the initial response was very important during the handling. This incident happened on the night of November 5th and has been going on for three weeks now, hasn't it? It's a pity that if we had dealt with the vinegar well, the problem wouldn't have continued to escalate this long and this noisy. This case is the name of the family of the ruling party leader and criticized the president and his spouse inside the bulletin board of the People's Power Party. So it's not a small matter to just pass by because nothing happened. Even so, it's hard to say that this is a very megaton-class issue that puts CEO Han Dong-hoon's fate on the line. In any case, due to the wrong initial response, this has completely turned into a factional confrontation, and in this situation, it is a very unfortunate situation that the fate of the bulletin board of our people should be entrusted to the police raid and search.

[Anchor]
It was originally an anonymous bulletin board on the party's bulletin board, but suddenly, the name could be searched on the anonymous bulletin board. There was a name called Han Dong-hoon. First of all, I heard that Han Dong-hoon is not the CEO of Han Dong-hoon. Is that confirmed?

[Park Yong-chan]
There were eight Han Dong-hoon, not the leader of the Korean People's Power Party. In other words, the party's official position is that there was no Han Dong-hoon born in 1973. Since the police investigation is underway, we will have to watch the police investigation separately.

[Anchor]
And I heard there's also a family name. Is the family's name actually used by the family now, or is it still not confirmed?

[Park Yongchan]
That's right. That's the most important issue right now. Why did CEO Han Dong-hoon's family name, or the names of the five family members, come from that part? If CEO Han Dong-hoon had explained about that part earlier while dealing with the situation at the beginning, And in fact, if you had expressed your position, it wouldn't have turned out to be a big problem, I think so.

[Anchor]
Now CEO Han Dong-hoon criticized in a strong tone, saying, "The person who makes trouble today is the problem." Hasn't CEO Han started to express his position?

[Park Yongchan]
I don't think that statement is appropriate. There are also a number of aspects caused by CEO Han Dong-hoon. In addition, third-party forces, those who oppose Han Dong-hoon, have engaged in excessive political offensives, but there are also a number of areas where Han Dong-hoon amplified suspicions in the early days, I think so.

[Anchor]
From the perspective of the party members, they want to know whether it is family or not. Rep. Yoon Sang-hyun continues to insist. Family or not. They say CEO Han Dong-hoon can check it out.

[Park Yongchan]
That's right. As I said earlier, this incident is a case in which the president and his spouse were criticized on the bulletin board under the name of the ruling party leader's family. Therefore, it is a case that attracts a lot of attention, which many party members and even the public are curious about. We need to know this.

[Anchor]
I see. Representative Kim Han-kyu is investigating the issue of the bulletin board of the People's Power Party. We're investigating, and one is the party's bulletin board suddenly exposed, and it's an anonymous bulletin board. We are investigating who wrote it and whether the contents correspond to defamation. The other one is... There are suspicions that representative Han Dong-hoon set up a public opinion team when he was a minister, didn't this also start today? Those two investigations are under way, right?

[Kim Han-gyu]
Both of them were former Supreme Council member Jang Ye-chan, so-called Chin-yoon, who argued. Please say something from an acquaintance of former Minister of Justice Han Dong-hoon and others. It was said that there was a request like this before, so it broke out. And recently, the fact that Han Dong-hoon's family wrote on an anonymous bulletin board came out on a conservative YouTube broadcast.There is a part that Jang Ye-chan, the former best, amplified on his SNS or broadcast. So from our perspective, we're fighting for power within the party. So, they used their investigative power to attack the opposition party, but now they are trying to solve this by using the power of outside forces and the power of investigative agencies. Looking at these things, the judicialization of politics has intensified. And the case of Lee Jun-seok's ouster, which seems to be old, but only three years later. In the end, this started with suspicion of sex crimes, but in the end, CEO Lee Joon-seok was not even indicted. In the end, politics in this way that uses investigative agencies to solve internal problems. I think the members of the People's Power Party will be quite embarrassed.


In my view, basically, why has this become such a big issue? As Chairman Park said, since representative Han Dong-hoon is not his real name at the beginning, he can also swear because he is anonymous. Like this, if my family had done something inappropriate and said sorry, it would have been sorted out. Then, I wonder if representative Han Dong-hoon can continue to take this stance that criticized the president for not having an apology from First Lady Kim Gun-hee, but now he can criticize the president. In fact, from a different point of view, if it is an anonymous bulletin board, anyone can criticize it. That's not the president, but the leader of the ruling party can be criticized right away. But why would you find out who your real name is? Is this right? Then, the anonymous bulletin board will be useless in the future. Who is anxious to say something that the leader of the party or the president would hate? And the people all know it. The relationship between the president and representative Han Dong-hoon is not good. Then, can't CEO Han Dong-hoon's family complain? Is it right to investigate anonymous bulletin boards like this in a liberal democracy? I think CEO Han Dong-hoon has a point.

[Anchor]
CEO Han Dong-hoon also told me yesterday that it seems to be intended to cover up his issues related to the so-called pollack bacillus list in relation to those who raise this issue. Aren't you trying to cover up suspicions about the list of pollack bacteria? And what if the poll TF was launched again today? So, some analysts say that this is also aimed at some close lawmakers.

[Park Yongchan]
CEO Han Dong-hoon said, "Let's improve the poll questions as well. And shouldn't we reveal something about the case of pollack bacteria? We are also in favor of that principled position. However, it is difficult to agree on the point of political aggression by linking the issue of the party's bulletin board with the Myung Tae-kyun case or some opinion poll case. The problem with the party's bulletin board right now is that representative Han Dong-hoon's family can sufficiently operate on the anonymous bulletin board, as Representative Kim said. But the question is whether this was stolen or borrowed from the name. In other words, was the structural problem of the anonymous bulletin board not revealed this time? The opposition camp against representative Han Dong-hoon and the general party members are raising issues about that. That's why the names are on the party's bulletin board under the names of these families, and the names are written by the family members of CEO Han Dong-hoon. Or is there a third power? In other words, is there an organized comment team? In other words, I'm now questioning the structural problem of anonymous bulletin boards.

[Anchor]
Representative Kim Han-kyu explained earlier, but the cyber investigation team of the Seoul Metropolitan Police Agency is investigating the controversy over the bulletin board of the People's Power Party. Today, the Seoul Metropolitan Police Agency's public crime investigation team investigated the accusers regarding allegations that CEO Han Dong-hoon ran a public opinion team when he was a minister. It's a police investigation into allegations related to the ruling party leader. How do I watch this?

[Park Yongchan]
Looking at this issue from a political point of view, it is not just an OB-Irak. I think there's some kind of organizational movement. You can see it like that. If you take a close look at this case, didn't you proceed with the investigation of the accuser today? Who is the accuser is the standing representative of the Citizens' Action to set up the judiciary right. In other words, the case was filed by the left wing, not by our right wing. In addition, the Cho Kuk Innovation Party has already filed a complaint against the operation of the comment team while representing Han Dong-hoon as Attorney General. Therefore, the Seoul Metropolitan Police Agency is investigating the two cases by merging them. And what I remember is that we had a national convention last July, right? During the national convention, former Supreme Council member Jang Ye-chan strongly raised suspicions that he systematically operated an online poll team, in other words, a comment team, when he was representative justice minister Han Dong-hoon.

[Anchor]
At that time, he explained that he had never hired anyone or run a team. Today, Jang Dong-hyuk, a member of the close circle, interpreted that the fight now is that the final target is representative Han Dong-hoon and a hegemony fight is underway within the party. Is it right?

[Park Yongchan]
That aspect, that's what we're going into. However, as I said earlier, it is by no means desirable to make factional fighting remarks that go too far ahead. This may really split our party in two. I'm worried about that a lot. So, I would like to tell you that the problem of the party bulletin board is limited to the problem of the party bulletin board, so we need to check it thoroughly and systematically.

[Anchor]
Did you see the open war between representative Han and former Supreme Council member Kim Min at the Supreme Council yesterday? How did you see it?

[Park Yongchan]
It wasn't very good to see. Yesterday was the day when the first trial ruling on Lee Jae-myung's perjury teacher came out, and that morning, our party showed us scratching and fighting each other like Bongsoongak Hakdang.

[Anchor]
That's how it was yesterday morning. Former Supreme Council member Kim Min raised the issue.

[Park Yongchan]
That's right. Citing media reports yesterday, doesn't former Rep. Kim Min mention the unconfirmed report that he will file a complaint against those who criticize Han Dong-hoon? CEO Han Dong-hoon was very angry about that. In any case, I would like to reiterate that it is by no means desirable for this issue to lead to factional strife within the party.

[Kim Hangyu]
I'm sure they know it's not desirable. But it's to be advantageous to you or to be harmful to the other person.

[Anchor]
We can talk about it at a private meeting. If you look at what we talked about at the public meeting, it's a determined statement.

[Kim Hangyu]
That's right. Kim Min-jeon, the best, has been a member of the National Assembly as a proportional representative. However, there are perceptions that being a member of the Supreme Council was pushed by pro-Yoon rather than by his own political power, but is that really his own independent remarks? I think you are intentionally doing political activities such as aggression against CEO Han Dong-hoon. Even other sugars don't look good.

[Anchor]
Right now, Supreme Council member Jang Dong-hyuk, Supreme Council member Kim Jong-hyuk, and Vice President Shin Ji-ho all seem to have something new in the works. And I also urge former Supreme Council member Kim Min to explain. The conflict between the pro-Yoon-gye and the pro-Yoon-gye was intensifying.

[Park Yongchan]
If both sides scratch and speak ill of each other like this, both sides will eventually annihilate. Didn't we see such a case many times? So not only will it jeopardize the basic government of Yoon Suk Yeol, but it will also be able to enter various stages that we really don't want to think about. So now, I think it's not courage to save your words and persevere.

[Anchor]
Thank you. I think this issue will lead to the next keyword. Please show us the next keyword. The floor leaders of both parties are talking about the possibility of postponing the re-vote. Kim Gun-hee's Special Prosecutor Act. Originally, it was expected to be re-voted on the 28th. There's talk of acting right now. We will listen to the voices of the floor leaders of the ruling and opposition parties.

Just a moment ago, the president of Yoon Suk Yeol exercised his right to demand reconsideration. But it was originally said that it would be re-voted on the 28th, but it seems that they are considering postponing it. Are you actually reviewing it?

[Kim Hangyu]
There were two reasons. One was that it was unclear when the president would veto it, and now he has. It was possible until the 29th, so I might not have done it before then. I don't know if the second one is realistically possible.Ma is in such a conflict in the ruling party, and we need two-thirds of the lawmakers who are strategically present to approve the re-decision, but if the people's power decreases attendance at the plenary session for this reason, the possibility increases. Then, from our point of view, we don't have to say clearly when we'll do it.

[Anchor]
Then, is there a high possibility that it won't open on the 28th?

[Kim Hangyu]
The plenary session will be held. However, the chairman of the National Assembly and the floor leaders of the ruling and opposition parties will decide whether this agenda will go up just before that. Second, as our party's floor leader said earlier, the only way for Han Dong-hoon to live is the Kim Gun-hee Special Prosecutor Act. I don't know if CEO Han Donghoon would think so.Looking at Ma gathering in the party like that, I think people around Representative Han Dong-hoon might say, "Should we show strength together on this?" Rather than necessarily taking advantage of this situation, we are considering the timing because at least one lawmaker who agrees to the re-decision must come out more than last time to gain strength.

[Anchor]
The terms of the re-decision are two-thirds. So, more than 200 out of 300 members of the National Assembly should approve, but the number of members of the People's Power is 108. Last time, four people left. A further departure could lead to a vote. That's why some analysts say that they are considering postponement now taking advantage of the ruling party's internal strife. Do you think so?

[Park Yongchan]
That's right. Even from the Democratic Party's point of view, I think they thought, "Now is not the time." Although there is a lot of conflict within our party right now, there is still a single confrontation about the Kim Gun-hee independent counsel law. That's how I judged that the single Great Ditch is not collapsing. And even as we see it, there is no change in the Democratic Party's Special Prosecutor Kim Gun-hee Act within the power of our people. Unless the Democratic Party's attitude changes, the atmosphere is firmly established that the Kim Gun-hee Special Counsel Act is unacceptable.

[Anchor]
Was it yesterday? Presidential Chief of Staff Jeong Jin-seok had a luncheon with ruling party lawmakers. There's a story that emphasized unity.

[Park Yongchan]
That's right. About 40 people gathered. It is believed that a lot of people have gathered, and that includes a number of so-called close people. And from the perspective of representative Han Dong-hoon, if the Kim Gun-hee Special Prosecutor Act is voted on by the National Assembly, the theory of representative Han Dong-hoon's responsibility will probably be stronger than now. Will CEO Han Dong-hoon be able to handle that? And in fact, isn't CEO Han Dong-hoon solidifying his position that the Kim Gun-hee Special Prosecutor Act should not be handled?

[Anchor]
Park Chan-dae, the floor leader, is said to live in President Yoon's life, and Han Dong-hoon's life is to accept Kim Gun-hee, the special prosecutor.

[Park Yongchan]
That's the Democrats continuing to throw carrots. Should I say that it is a strategy to split our party with representative Han Dong-hoon by talking differently from the truth? That's how I see it.

[Anchor]
I see. Thank you very much. That's all for today's politics. Park Yong-chan, chairman of the party's cooperation committee, and Kim Han-kyu, member of the Democratic Party of Korea, joined Yeongdeungpo, the People's Power. Thank you very much.