The aftermath of Minju's "Cutting In"..."Principle" vs "Explaining."

■ Host: Kim Sun-young Anchor
■ Appearance: Lee Joon-woo, member of the People's Power Media Special Committee, Jang Hyun-joo, vice chairman of the Democratic Party of Korea Legal Committee

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN Newswide] when quoting.

[Anchor]
Next year's budget bill passed the National Assembly Budget Committee led by the opposition party. It is also the first time in constitutional history that there was no consultation between the ruling and opposition parties, and that the budget bill, which only aired "reduced" rather than "increased" was passed. I'll talk to the two of you. Lee Joon-woo, a member of the People's Power Media Special Committee, and Jang Hyun-joo, vice chairman of the Democratic Party of Korea's legal committee, came out. Welcome. I think we need to talk about the budget plan today, but it's the first time in history that the budget has passed the budget bill without an agreement between the ruling and opposition parties, right?

[Lee Junwoo]
That's right. It's the first time that it's been handled alone without consultation at the subcommittee on budgeting. But the budget has been increased and reduced like this. The National Assembly is reviewing it to play that role, but it is difficult for the government to take a position because it only passes the reduction without any increase, which makes it difficult for the government to do what it has to do to the people. However, Park Jung, chairman of the Budget and Accounts Committee, praised himself for handling the budget bill within the legal deadline for the first time since the enforcement of the National Assembly Advancement Act, and it is embarrassing to see him praise himself like this while only reducing the budget without any increase.

[Anchor]
So, in the draft budget submitted by the government, only the reduction without any additional increase was passed by the Budget and Accounts Committee, but I think there is a reason why the Democratic Party only pushed for the reduction like this. What do you think it is?

[Jang Hyun-joo]
The reduced items will be important. As you can see now, I think I should say that the opposition party is checking the budgets that are not transparently used by the people, such as the special expenses of the police, the special expenses of the presidential office, and the special expenses of the Board of Audit and Inspection. First of all, from the Democratic Party's point of view, the budget is the people's money. This isn't some politician's money or a civil servant's money, is it? Of course, since it is operated with taxpayers' money, people's taxes must be executed transparently, and if evidence has not been properly established in this area, it is clear that the opposition should check such practices. Therefore, I think there is a possibility that the ruling and opposition parties will agree on this basis because if this part is transparently verified and only proven, it can be increased again, and there is still time until the plenary session passes.

[Anchor]
The ruling and opposition parties are divided over the passage of the Budget and Accounts Committee. Let's hear from the ruling and opposition parties.

[Anchor]
First of all, the budget for the reduction has passed the Budget and Accounts Committee, but I think we need to look into this part as to where the reduction was made. Which part should I pay attention to?

[Lee Junwoo]
As you just said, there are special activity expenses and specific business expenses here, such as the prosecution, the Board of Audit and Inspection, and the police. Almost all of this was cut. But when I cut it earlier, I said I cut it because it was not transparent because I did not submit evidence for it. To tell you the fact check, don't you know the Moon Jae In government? At that time, the Democratic Party rather increased this expense. Even then, I didn't ask for any request or explanation of the evidentiary documents. In the days of the Moon Jae In government, it is not even correct in terms of equity to increase all these special activity costs and reduce the special activity costs that the Yoon Suk Yeol government raises. In the past, such a specific . . .

[Anchor]
There was no explanation or explanation. Are you looking at it like this?

[Lee Junwoo]
There was no such thing. At that time, the Democratic Party only increased the amount. And isn't there an oil field development project? We also cut 98.5% of this. Cutting it like this means that the government will stop it from working.

[Anchor]
We are showing you the item graphic, but most of them include the prosecution, police, and the Board of Audit and Inspection, so isn't this Lee Jae-myung's party? The power of the people is now claiming.

[Jang Hyun-joo]
I think it's nothing more than a political offensive in the power of the people. In fact, I am concerned about what the people will think when I see the lack of political power or incompetence of the government and the ruling party. Because in fact, it was in the situation of the budget National Assembly, and in the situation of the budget National Assembly, the Democratic Party continued to talk about the fact that if the special activity expenses were not transparently implemented, it would make a bold decision. Nevertheless, I wonder if the government and the ruling party have been buried in family disputes within the power of the people and have been properly engaged in cooperation and negotiations with the opposition party. As I said earlier, if special activity costs are not transparent and do not meet the people's right to know, I think it is the people's demand that they correct how they were operated in the past and even now. If there is such a demand from the people, I think it is also a responsibility for the opposition to fulfill its duty, so in that respect, it should be considered that the reduction has been made centering on special activity costs. In particular, as I keep saying, there is still time until the plenary session, so I think we should use our bargaining and political power to cooperate with the opposition parties and even meet with the opposition leader to think about how to get the cooperation of the opposition parties in the budget parliamentary process.

[Anchor]
What do you think about these objections, such as whether there was any specific explanation and explanation during the Moon Jae In administration in the past regarding special activities?

[Jang Hyun-joo]
Well, I think it's hard for me to agree. Even if it is common to say why the Moon Jae In government did not argue about special activity costs and why now is the case, if the convention was wrong, I think it is something that the opposition party should correct in front of the people. Therefore, if there is a clear conflict with the people's right to know about the operation of special activity expenses and these parts are operated opaquely, the opposition party has no choice but to make a bold decision.

[Anchor]
Restoration of principles is important in the Democratic Party. Of course, it is not important to compare the past government with the current government, but it is right to explain to the public in detail about special activities, and there is also a view that the power of the people needs any political effort.

[Lee Junwoo]
The special activity cost is basically the information activity cost. So, in order to investigate drug investigations and various crimes, it is the cost of an investigation that cannot increase receipts. If we cut all these expenses, what will we do about information activities? How can we prevent crimes from happening next? You have to know in advance to prevent it, right? So, during the Moon Jae In government, the increase was made without a receipt, but for the same reason, it is one political purpose to completely cut it. Then, instead, the court's budget increased by 20 billion won. What does that mean? So, for the investigative agencies that investigated CEO Lee Jae-myung, I don't think increasing the budget for the courts that retaliate by cutting the budget and sentence CEO Lee Jae-myung, the court cannot turn the guilt into innocence, but it is a very biased budget review that is clearly visible to the public.

[Anchor]
The oil field business that lawmaker Lee Jun-woo pointed out earlier. It's called the Blue Whale Project, and it was 50.5 billion won, but it was reduced to 800 million won. I've cut almost all of my budget, and if this happens, the Democratic Party is right to withdraw this project, is this the opinion? How should I interpret this?

[Jang Hyun-joo]
Rather than having to withdraw it, this budget, or projects related to blue whales, should be more transparently informed to the public, and there is something more to look into from the opposition party's point of view. Of course, the president even briefed himself in terms of policy briefings in the government, but there are certainly some suspicious or a little uncomfortable parts of the subsequent reports on the project from the opposition side. That's why this budget cannot necessarily be recognized as the government's mentioned budget, and we need to look into what the opposition party has to look into. If there is a problem with this, I think the government and the ruling party should come with a more reasonable basis and explain it to the people.

[Anchor]
In the case of Deputy Prime Minister Choi Sang-mok, regarding the large reduction in reserve funds this time, he criticized, "If this happens, we can't do anything right away in the event of a disaster." What does that mean?

[Lee Junwoo] It's
right. As a reserve fund, the reserve fund was cut by 2.4 trillion won. Didn't it snow a lot a few days ago? This snow appears due to abnormal weather conditions, and it is said that it snowed the most in November in 117 years. If so, we need more and more money to respond to climate change, not disasters, but if we cut this budget entirely, who can prevent all the damage to the people and who can compensate for it? So it's too much to take away even this reserve, which allows people to respond to or support disaster damage like this. Aren't all the members of the State Council who work for the government through impeachment and dismissal in the Democratic Party of Korea now throwing them out of their seats? It's not enough to take out people, and now the government is taking out money to work. I'm telling you.

[Anchor]
Anyway, you said you have some time before the plenary session passes, but since the budget is only negative anyway, is the Democratic Party open to increasing the amount through political negotiations in the future, or is it an attitude to pass it unconditionally?

[Jang Hyun-joo]
There is still room for negotiation. Since it is still before the plenary session passes, I think there is a possibility of cooperation in the process. In particular, Deputy Prime Minister Choi Sang-mok said that he would not be able to prevent disasters when it comes to reserve funds, but I think this is a bit logical. As you know, reserve funds are for the state's emergency fund. However, the problem with this reserve is that it is difficult for the National Assembly to verify this in advance. It's probably because it's organized and used as an emergency fund. However, the opposition party is taking issue with President Yoon Suk Yeol's trip and summit diplomacy last year, which cost 53.2 billion won in reserve. And the cost of relocating to Yongsan was 65 billion won in reserve. The opposition party is pointing out this part. Although it is up in the name of a reserve fund, it is clear whether it is being used as an emergency fund for a state of emergency that meets the public's expectation or whether the budget is being diverted in a direction that the people do not want, so of course, there is a reduction in this part, and if this part brings a reasonable basis or a reason that the people can understand, I think there is still a possibility and room for negotiations.

[Anchor]
At this time of year, the ruling and opposition parties suffer from the budget bill, but I think the pain will be even greater this year. Recently, the Democratic Party of Korea has been taking out impeachment cards one after another as it has been walking a strong drive, and the arrow of impeachment has gone all the way to the head of the Board of Audit and Inspection this time. Looking at the reasons for that, you are holding up issues such as the presidential residence, poor audit, and perjury to the National Assembly, so how persuasive do you think it is?

[Lee Junwoo]
That's the ostensible reason. There's a real reason. The reason for the impeachment of the Board of Audit and Inspection Choi is that he was appointed by the Moon Jae In government. This person thanked the misconducts in the Moon Jae In government. There were also allegations that the representative ones deliberately delayed the deployment of real estate and employment figures, as well as statistics on THAAD. Also, the shooting of a civil servant in the West Sea. These things were audited by the Board of Audit and Inspection, and some also asked the prosecution to investigate. In my view, how the auditor appointed during the Moon Jae In administration can audit the Moon Jae In government is nothing more than retaliation. Another big reason is that the auditor is currently not suspended due to impeachment, right? Then you'll act as an agent. The representatives are Cho Won-seok and Kim In-hoe, the audit committee members, and these are very Democratic. In particular, Cho Eun-seok was a person who continued to insist on the audit of the Board of Audit and Inspection in relation to the relocation of the presidential office. And Kim In-hoe, who is waiting next, was also a co-author of a book called Thinking of the Prosecution with former President Moon Jae In.

[Anchor]
So you're trying to change it to someone who'll be on our side, right?

[Lee Junwoo]
That's right. So I think it's the purpose of doing an audit with retaliation for the Moon Jae In government and the Democrats.

[Anchor]
Therefore, it is viewed as a political purpose to suspend the activities of the Board of Audit and Inspection against the previous government. How do you see that?

[Jang Hyun-joo]
Well, if you look at the auditor's attitude of audit so far, the pattern of persistently auditing various policy decisions related to the Moon Jae In government and requesting an investigation is repeated. Of course, if it is a really problematic part from the perspective of the people, I think it is necessary to audit and investigate. That's what you have to do.I don't think so, but the important thing is whether it's fair or not. As you know, the Board of Audit and Inspection has audited the construction related to the official residence, but it has been evaluated and criticized that the results of the audit for a year and eight months are too poor. Then, if the audit function of the presidential office or the current power is not properly performed, and perhaps the audit is conducted in a way that loses political neutrality and undermines independence, there is a clear question of whether this is actually anti-constitutional. For example, if you drive a road with a speed limit of 50 kilometers, you will drive 200 kilometers in reverse direction. Shouldn't we stop for now? First of all, if it is a constitutional organization that maintains neutrality and independence, but it undermines its value, it has no choice but to prosecute the impeachment because the constitutional right, the power of the National Assembly, is the right to impeach.

[Anchor]
Rep. Park Joo-min of the Democratic Party explained like this. So, it is an argument that the only thing that the National Assembly can do in our National Assembly is impeachment, which is the unique authority of the National Assembly. How do you hear that?

[Lee Junwoo]
It's the unique authority of the National Assembly. It's a unique authority, but the question is whether the reason is valid. As you said earlier, didn't the auditor investigate whether the auditor properly audited the issue? Didn't the auditor investigate the legitimate manipulation of the economic feasibility of nuclear power plants? a fabrication of real estate statistics Should I leave it there? Can't we audit all the policies of the person appointed by the president of Moon Jae In? Should I turn a blind eye to illegality? Don't you think you shouldn't do that? The reason why I went there is to use the independent audit authority guaranteed by the Constitution. So, if you don't audit even though you're suspected of a crime, it's a dereliction of duty and it's simply a sense of impeachment. For the same reason as now, it's not an impeachment at all.

[Jang Hyun-joo]
That's true, but I just want to add that when there was an audit of the relocation of the presidential office, in fact, a specific company continued to be a problem, but it was not confirmed who recommended that specific company. In fact, those may be the most important parts, but if the Board of Audit and Inspection does not audit those parts, would the public think that the intensity of the Board of Audit and Inspection's audit of the previous administration and the intensity of the audit of the current administration are fair? I think we can raise enough problems in this area.

[Anchor]
It's a selective audit. The Democratic Party claims so, and according to the current schedule, the Democratic Party is pushing for the impeachment of prosecutors, so on the same day, Lee Chang-soo, the chief of the Central District Prosecutors' Office, and Choi Hae-soo, the chief of the Board of Audit and Inspection, will be impeached together, which is the 11th impeachment card. There may be a backlash against the Democratic Party of Korea as it goes in such a way that the impeachment card is excessive, public opinion. There was also this worrying view.

[Jang Hyun-joo]
However, I think that the concern of a headwind may be a wish from the power of the people. In fact, the Democratic Party has been using the impeachment card, that is, the impeachment that the National Assembly can do, is not actually yesterday or today. Then, even though controversies related to this impeachment continued even before the last general election, it is clear that a lot of public sentiment chose the Democratic Party of Korea in the general election.

[Anchor]
There are many voices of support?

[Jang Hyun-joo]
That's right. If the opposition party pursues impeachment and there is no public support and public sentiment after that, it will be difficult to use the card of impeachment. But the DP apparently has a public eye for suspicion and the people should come out and do something at the National Assembly. If so, I think there will be more criticism about the fact that the ruling party failed to properly check and monitor this part, rather than that there is a backlash in this regard because the National Assembly should use the right to impeach.

[Anchor]
Lee Chang-soo, the chief of the Central District Prosecutors' Office, gave an unusual media interview and impeach me. Don't impeach junior prosecutors. And the interview was unusual, saying, "Isn't this a problem that the people will suffer from?" The Democratic Party of Korea claims that it should be an acting system even when the prosecutor is impeached, but what do you think about the disruptions to the work gap?

[Lee Junwoo]
The prosecutors are all together and expressing concern with the same voice, from executive-level prosecutors to rank-and-file prosecutors. In this way, if there is political external pressure on the prosecutor's investigation authority guaranteed by the Constitution, should I stay still? As prosecutors speak out and resist, we naturally have to voice our voices to investigate justly by exercising the power granted by the people according to the law. And among what you said earlier, isn't it retaliation for the non-prosecution regarding First Lady Kim Gun-hee? In the end, the impeachment of Lee Chang-soo, the chief prosecutor, is retaliation for not prosecuting Kim. If I say this, then all the prosecutors who participated in the Kim investigation for two years of the Moon Jae In government should be called and impeached. This is because 100 investigative agencies, investigative teams, and prosecutors have already been included in the Moon Jae In government for two years. About 100 people participated and investigated all suspicions related to Kim Gun-hee, but no evidence came out, so they could not prosecute in the end. But why then, when the government came to the same conclusion just because the government changed, should it be prosecuted by making evidence that does not exist by asking for a crime that does not exist? Impeaching him for not prosecuting is just a very political argument. I don't think politics should be involved in the investigation.

[Anchor]
In any case, since the budget bill and the impeachment are unfolding, the task ahead of the people's power is quite heavy, and if you look inside the people's power, there is a continued conflict between factions over the controversy over the party bulletin board. Let's hear what is being said about the party bulletin board from within the people's power.

[Anchor]
It is said that Han Dong-hoon style of speech is popular in politics these days, but this is not what I said. It's a very ambiguous foot. How did you personally interpret it?

[Jang Hyun-joo]
That's right. So, it's a very ambiguous expression to the point where people say, "Did you completely adjust to the Yeouido grammar?" I didn't say it myself, but I don't think the controversy will stop because it is said that the thoughts of their aides or close friends were reflected. In the end, representative Han Dong-hoon is now on the defensive due to various controversies related to the party bulletin board, and close circles suspect that it is actually shaking the party leader. In this situation, I think it is a clear warning that a card that can reverse this can lead to a vote of departure from the independent counsel law on Kim Gun-hee. In the process of such interpretations as a warning, CEO Han Dong-hoon might admit that there is some warning by vaguely saying that it was not what I said.

[Anchor]
As the pro-yoon offensive intensified, representative Han Dong-hoon, who was on the brink of a cliff, fired a horror bullet anyway, and these interpretations are coming out, so would the pro-yoon community accept it in that sense?

[Lee Junwoo]
This is not what I said, this means that I agree with the departure vote to some extent, and I have no choice but to interpret it like this. Another thing, I know who said it. It will inevitably be interpreted like this. Yesterday, he said he would announce a complaint regarding the party bulletin board. I released the notice of accusation, but if you look at it, it's explained in length. However, in conclusion, he is only talking about CEO Han Dong-hoon himself and does not mention his family at all. However, the core of this problem is whether or not six family members other than CEO Han Dong-hoon manipulated comments and manipulated public opinion. However, if the family wrote it themselves, if CEO Han Dong-hoon apologizes, it will be criticized, but it can be moved on. However, if the IDs and off-duty numbers of six members of the Han Dong-hoon family have been transferred and some outside forces have manipulated public opinion, this is something to be investigated.

[Anchor]
So you're saying that the representative family didn't use it, but you stole that ID, right?

[Lee Junwoo]
And former Governor Kim Kyung-soo is such a case. At that time, it was done by a machine called a micro, and this was done by someone else, so if a third party outside did it anyway, it would be subject to investigation. And he has been silent about the alleged manipulation of public opinion for more than 20 days without responding much. I would like to say that it actually exuded the nuance of acknowledging it, which rather raised the anger. If we create a situation where we break away from the Special Prosecutor Kim Act and pass it, I think it will probably be a scarlet letter that cannot be recovered from CEO Han Dong-hoon's point of view.

[Anchor]
If passed, Han Dong-hoon will wear scarlet letters. Are you saying that wearing scarlet letters in the future could even jeopardize your political life?

[Lee Junwoo]
It will be a scarlet letter that is difficult to restore political life.

[Anchor]
You don't think it's very likely because you've done it twice, right?

[Lee Junwoo]
There's no such thing.

[Anchor]
If it passes, representative Han Dong-hoon will be in a very political crisis, but I think there will be another view. What do you think?

[Jang Hyun-joo]
I agree with the Commissioner. If the independent counsel law on Kim Gun-hee is passed, it is expected that representative Han Dong-hoon will be held accountable within the power of the people. In particular, I think there will be a very heated response from the pro-Yoon world. Therefore, if some members of the pro-Yoon faction see that the independent counsel law against Han Dong-hoon has actually been proposed by the Cho Kuk Innovation Party, and if it is passed, there is a possibility that there will be a considerable amount of self-destruction within the people's power. Even so, I think that there is a possibility that there will be more leave votes depending on the atmosphere and various situations because the anonymous vote will take place that day, rather than planning to exercise a leave vote. If the shaking of CEO Han Dong-hoon continues, there is a warning that he will not stay still even in close circles, so I think there is a higher possibility that more votes will be cast during the re-voting process than the last four votes.

[Anchor]
No one can predict that situation, but isn't the departure vote not because of CEO Han Dong-hoon?

[Lee Junwoo]
I don't think it's going to come out voluntarily. The moment it comes out, it's annihilating. You can't even create the next regime. Even the president can't manage state affairs properly. You'll lose all the power. I don't think anyone in our party would agree on that. CEO Han Dong-hoon said this. Why shouldn't family members criticize the president? Why can't they criticize him? That's right. However, when representative Han Dong-hoon criticized the president in the past, he did not try to bring him down. It was a criticism. However, when it comes to criticism of yourself, they say that they are trying to bring me down. When you criticize others, you are very justified, and when you are criticized, it is a very inclined view to see that you have a political intention to bring them down.

[Anchor]
According to some media reports, Yoon Suk Yeol's president continues to make dinner appointments with lawmakers next week. Relay dinner, is that right?

[Lee Junwoo]
That's what I know. Isn't it good to make a group and go with people who are in common? There will be regions as well.

[Anchor]
You're not just calling out the so-called Chin Yoon, are you?

[Lee Junwoo]
I'm afraid not. Everyone expects the success of the pro-right and government, so I don't think we will do something so childish that we divide up a faction and eat.

[Anchor]
So the atmosphere is set as all the lawmakers are going to attend, right?

[Lee Junwoo]
First of all, we don't set all the schedules at once. I only set things to do in front of some parts, and there are parts where I have a personal schedule in the back. It will take some time to adjust to each other.

[Anchor]
Anyway, I think it's true to hear that there is a relay dinner, but since there is a dinner like this ahead of the re-decision of the special prosecutor Kim Gun-hee, there will be a lot of political interpretations.

[Jang Hyun-joo]
Of course, I think so. The president will meet with lawmakers and talk a lot, but from a national point of view, I'm a little concerned that the president's dining with his party's lawmakers at this severe time may eventually be seen as a way to prevent a departure vote. As in the current situation, people's livelihoods and the economy are difficult, and the government and the ruling party are on the defensive even in the current situation of the budget National Assembly. The president should also meet with members of the People's Power, but it is regrettable that he will be able to solve the current tight political situation if he shows himself eating with members of the opposition party.

[Anchor]
Anyway, the power of the people is in a restless atmosphere, and if the presidential relay dinner takes place, we will watch interestingly how the party's atmosphere will change. They were Lee Joon-woo, a member of the People's Power Media Special Committee, and Jang Hyun-joo, vice chairman of the Democratic Party of Korea's legal committee. Thank you.