[New Square 2PM] "It's not a rebellion" by President Yoon.Is it going to be an all-round public opinion battle?

■ Host: anchor Lee Se-na, anchor Na Kyung-chul
■ Starring: Lee Hun-hwan, professor of law at Ajou University, lawyer Lee Go-eun

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN New Square 2PM] when quoting.

[Anchor]
Analysts say President Yoon Suk Yeol, whose duties have been suspended due to the passage of the National Assembly's impeachment bill, is raising the level of public opinion through outdoor arguments. Today, acting Han Deok-soo exercised his right to request reconsideration on six bills, including the Grain Management Act. Today, we will be joined by Professor Lee Hun-hwan and Attorney Lee Go-eun of Ajou University Law School. Please come in. President Yoon's lawyer Seok Dong-hyun expressed his position twice today. You just saw the reporter's Q&A process, what part did you focus on?

[Lee Heon-hwan]
I think it is a repetition of the argument made in the content of the recent President Yoon Suk Yeol's statement that has not taken a step forward.

{이고}In my case, didn't you ask your lawyer about not receiving the part of the documents sent by the Constitutional Court? A reporter asked if it was to delay the investigation, and he raised a reasonable suspicion, which is a puzzling question. I avoided an immediate answer to this part. As President Yoon Suk Yeol said in his statement that he could take any position, but he would not avoid legal responsibility, he should receive the documents properly and state his position on what will happen in this area, but even lawyers avoided immediate answers to the delivery of the documents, raising concerns that this delay would continue in the future.

[Anchor]
Controversy continues over the part that is in question now, whether this is a civil war or not, and there were questions about it earlier. But where is there a civil war that heralds a civil war? And there is no civil war to quit. How did you see this part when you expressed your position?

[Lee Heon-hwan]
When we make a legal judgment, when we make a legal assessment of a person's actions, the actor does not make an assessment of it himself, but the law judges it. Therefore, it is necessary to prove that the act was legally valid as well as the subjective justification of the actor, but in the words of the president or the lawyers about the last December 3 incident, they only justify their actions themselves, and they have no idea how the law will evaluate it. Therefore, I think it is time to respond to the investigation as soon as possible and prove that his actions were legally justified.

[Anchor]
While we're talking, a breaking news comes in and I'll deliver it to you. Earlier, a ruling was issued on the appeal of a wage lawsuit filed against the company by former and current workers of Hyundai Motor Company and Hanwha Life Insurance. Conditional regular bonuses are also included in ordinary wages in the Supreme Court. We decided that it was irrelevant to the correction performance.

As the Supreme Court's ruling could shake the foundation of the labor-management agreement that has been signed so far, considerable repercussions are expected, especially in the business community. As soon as we receive detailed news about this, we will continue to organize and report it.

[Anchor]
Lawyer, some observers say that President Yoon may respond like applying for an injunction to lift the suspension of his duties. What do you mean by the provisional disposition for lifting suspension of duty?

{이고}Hasn't the National Assembly approved the impeachment? At that moment, the president's duties were suspended. So it's a legal card that Yoon Suk Yeol's current president can consider. That's why you can apply for a provisional injunction to cancel the suspended part. If the application for provisional injunction is cited, President Yoon Suk Yeol will be able to perform his duties temporarily again until the original decision of the impeachment trial is made. There are currently talks about whether to take out a card for applying for provisional injunction on this part.

[Anchor]
How do you see the possibility?

{이고}I think it's very unlikely. None of the previous presidents of Park Geun Hye or the former presidents who were prosecuted for the impeachment trial actually filed a provisional injunction. Therefore, the Constitutional Court continues to emphasize its intention to finish this within April and to deal with it quickly, so even if an application for provisional injunction is received, it is unlikely to be cited.


[Lee Heon-hwan]
If you add one more word to that, it is not permitted under the Constitution and law to call it a provisional disposition to cancel the suspension of duty.
Because the Constitution and the Constitutional Court Act say that if there is an impeachment prosecution, the job will be suspended. This is not a matter to be decided by provisional disposition because the constitutional provisions are so, and the Constitutional Court Act says that such duties will be suspended in the impeachment proceedings. There is no constitutional or legal basis for lifting the suspension itself by provisional disposition, as the constitution and laws already explicitly stipulate.

[Anchor]
Is it only applicable to the president right now that he can't dispose of his suspension?

[Lee Heon-hwan]
In the case of impeachment, the Constitution and the Constitutional Court Act provide such provisions for the general impeachment.

[Anchor]
Today, lawyer Seok Dong-hyun said, "There is a lot of deliberation to form an optimal defense team," and people keep pointing out that he is intentionally dragging his feet.

{이고}In this case, the Constitutional Court is continuing its investigation, but the prosecution and the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit are also rapidly proceeding with the investigation. And the police are also conducting raids, but President Yoon Suk Yeol is not implementing all of those procedures. It is also currently refusing requests from the police, prosecutors, and the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit to investigate and summon investigations. As a result, the second summons is being carried out, and the seizure and search warrant for the president's office is already failing for the second time. And the documents related to the Constitution are not being served continuously, so of course, President Yoon Suk Yeol says it is to set up a lawyer, but what is the difference between setting up a lawyer and not cooperating with the seizure and search process? I'm a little curious about that.

In addition, please postpone the recall schedule a little. Then, until approximately when can I set up a defense team and adjust the schedule sufficiently to attend. However, if the government expresses its position that it cannot respond to the request for summons without telling the exact date, the people who look at that part have no choice but to suspect that this is an intention to delay unfairly, so it is true that I also suspect that this is the intention as a legal professional.

[Anchor]
In fact, lawyer Seok Dong-hyun, who conducted the Q&A today, is not included in the defense team. So, I know it as a role of legal advice, and the lawyers have not officially mentioned anything yet, so I think President Yoon's side continues to have doubts about whether he is continuing to fight over-the-counter public opinion. Wouldn't this work against President Yoon? How do you see it?

[Lee Heon-hwan]
What I felt while listening to lawyer Seok Dong-hyun's words was that in the end, this is a way to communicate with the people. What I really felt sorry for was that President Yoon Suk Yeol did not try to have an opportunity to communicate with our people. 12. After going through the 3rd incident, he seems to be saying that to prove that his actions were valid and to inform many people, but I think this will never be accepted as it is by our people.

[Anchor]
And didn't the Constitutional Court also reveal its position a little while ago? Various documents were sent to President Yoon, but they have not been received. While explaining that part one by one, it was reported that the Constitutional Court's response to the service will be revealed next Monday. Is there any way?

{이고}I'm doing it by person and I'm still trying to deliver it by mail. In addition, we are also trying to deliver it through electronic documents. However, in the case of electronic documents, the Constitutional Court ruled in July this year that even if President Yoon Suk Yeol does not see it, it is constitutional that it can take effect automatically after seven days. However, if it doesn't work, you can think about how to take effect by automatic delivery of electronic documents.
I don't think the Constitutional Court will just watch what President Yoon Suk Yeol doesn't receive. Today, according to various delivery methods, the fact that the Constitutional Court has such a suspicion that it wants to proceed as quickly as possible is the fact that it has a very detailed explanation of when it was attempted, when it was reached, and how it is going. In the end, I think we will know in detail how this part will take effect after about 7 days.
[Anchor]
I am considering how to treat it as a service. What does this mean?

{이고}It's supposed to be served. So, you have to sign the receipt from the media, whether it's the manager or the president's agent of Yoon Suk Yeol, but isn't it always the same whether the recipient is unknown, the door is closed, or the return? Although the service has not been substantially received, for example, I will replace the effect as if it had been served in an electronic document and after seven days. You can understand that I will consider it as a service.

[Anchor]
As the lawyer mentioned just a moment ago, it is said that the Constitutional Court will hold a review and discuss these things. What is a consultation?

[Lee Heon-hwan]
Review can be said to be the process of hearing a case and then making a final decision on the case and deciding between judges on how to conclude. There have already been many hearings on impeachment, so even if the six members cannot reach a decision in the course of the case, it can be said that the process of exchanging opinions on legal logic, conclusions, and so on is a consultation.

[Anchor]
Then, we are continuing to talk about delivery at a time when the president continues to refuse to receive documents. Maybe a lot of people can't start anything if they don't get served? I'm sure there are people who think like this. By the way, holding a review means that the constitutional court's work continues to be done regardless of whether it is received or not, is this how it should be viewed?

[Lee Heon-hwan]
is correct. What is originally called service is that this case is brought to you by the party when there is a dispute. This is a matter of informing you that a lawsuit has been filed and then serving it in the sense of responding to it. So, if there is a way of missing or missing address because there is no one at home, there is a method of public service, and the lawyer said earlier that it is electronic service.There are ways of service in that way and it is supposed to have a certain legal effect.

In that case, the Constitutional Court can cheekily exchange opinions on the case regardless of whether or not it is served.

[Anchor]
The Constitutional Court will reveal how it will respond next Monday, so we'll have to wait and see. In the meantime, Prime Minister Han Deok-soo, acting president, exercised his right to demand reconsideration on six issues, including the Grain Management Act, at an extraordinary Cabinet meeting this morning. Let's listen to the related remarks.

[Anchor]
There is a lot of talk in the political world about acting Han Deok-soo's veto, but how does the constitution stipulate it?

{이고}In the case of the Constitution, Article 71 states that if the President is unable or is vacant due to an accident, he or she shall act on behalf of the Prime Minister and the State Council member in order. So today, Acting President Han Deok-soo expressed his position calling for reconsideration on six contentious bills.

[Anchor]
In the end, to what extent can the acting president work? This is the problem, but there were a lot of bills related to people's livelihoods today. However, among the things that should be decided by January 1st next year, there are the Insurrection Special Prosecutor Act and the Special Prosecutor Act on First Lady Kim Gun-hee, which passed the plenary session of the National Assembly. How active will the acting president work in this area, and how do you view this area? [Lee Heon-hwan] The question of what the scope of the veto will be when the acting president exercises the veto is not uniformly standardized.

That's why they first asked for reconsideration of the six bills this time. I think it is necessary to point out the reasons individually for each of the six bills. In addition, if the previous government, for example, the government, which the prime minister is currently acting as, is significantly different in terms of policy, you can veto it. However, in this case, it is said that the veto was exercised on all six cases. I think it is necessary to specify the reason for the government's request for reconsideration in more detail as to what the reason for the rejection is. Then, in the case of the independent counsel Kim Gun-hee, even if he did not become an acting president, I personally believe that one of the important principles in the constitution is the principle of non-conflict of interest.

Of course, the principle of non-conflict of interest has been a natural law principle in the past, for example in Western society, and then there are many countries that are quite legally institutionalized today. However, if you look at the special prosecution in the past, for example, the Chae Sang-byung Special Prosecutor Act and so on. In the end, it was a law in which the president and his wife had direct interests, so it can be evaluated that it was not legally appropriate to exercise the right to veto at that time. In this case, the question of how the acting president will deal with these laws will be a concern in the future. In the case of the acting president, if there was a legal problem before that, I think that in the case of the acting president, it is the way for the people to resolve a series of suspicions and these problems by promulgating such laws properly by the government.

[Anchor]
This time, we will also look at the investigation on emergency martial law. Roh Sang-won, a former intelligence commander suspected of being deeply involved in the emergency martial law situation as a civilian, was arrested. I'm accused of carrying out an insurrection.

{이고}That's right. Two days before the martial law date, an arrest warrant was requested for meeting with other commanders and others related to martial law at a hamburger restaurant in Ansan and conspiring in advance. A warrant has been issued. There are various suspicions. Although there are some parts that were premeditated, there are also allegations related to the operation of the HID unit, and various suspicions are expected to be investigated sequentially in custody.

[Anchor]
The lawyer told me about the HID unit, and it turned out that the arrest warrant for former intelligence commander Roh Sang-won indicated the details of the HID unit. Let's listen to the related recording together. Professor, I think we need to know what an HID unit is, but these days, it's not used as an HID unit, is it?

[Lee Heon-hwan]
That's what they say. I don't know much about the organization of the military, so I recently found out through various media.Ma says that if you used to have a North Korean operatives unit like this and it's a general name for the unit itself, the name for that unit has been changing since then. Anyway, as we can see from the North Korean operatives themselves, it's a very special and powerful unit, and the mission itself is a kind of unit that is done in a different way than the general military role.

[Anchor]
It is said that the arrest warrant for former commander Roh Sang-won indicated the operation of the HID unit, but if these are true, they deserve to be key evidence of the president's alleged civil war. Can there be such a situation?

{이고}It could be one piece of evidence. As you said earlier, the HID unit is not a regular unit, is it? It is a unit that performs special duties such as factor assassination. Then, of course, there will be an investigation into what kind of assassination plans put these agents in, who, how, and for what. So, not only former Commander Roh but also Commander Moon Sang-ho, who you saw on the screen, will probably call in addition to investigate what plans they had for this part, who and how they spread the agents.

If you send an HID unit with the intention of paralyzing a person related to the National Assembly or assassinating someone, you should thoroughly investigate this part because it could deepen the suspicion of rebellion.

[Anchor]
Former commander Roh Sang-won, so he's a discharged commander. As a civilian, he participated in martial law together, which is controversial. How do you view it legally?

[Lee Heon-hwan]
As I have always argued, the core element of the impeachment process is the declaration of unconstitutionality and illegal emergency martial law. This will be the main issue in the impeachment process, and then the act of declaring such unconstitutionality and illegal emergency martial law is a civil war under the criminal law. It's judged on a legal level. So in that sense, the investigation into the civil war as a criminal procedure will continue, and from there, for example, including civilians, specific actors and operational plans have been developed throughout the act of civil war. What is important is what kind of connection between these actors and the President of Yoon Suk Yeol is. It's very important that it turns out that there are some links that connect.

In fact, in many areas, testimony in the National Assembly or statements in various investigative agencies, etc., I heard instructions from somewhere, and I heard them. What kind of commander said that he heard this from the president, and is it correct that the president said that? It is a matter in which the scope of punishment can be determined from the scope of the civil war to the extent that an investigation is conducted on whether it is accurate or not.

[Anchor]
And wasn't the investigation, which the prosecution, the police, and the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit competitively conducted in relation to the investigation, especially the investigation into the alleged civil war against President Yoon unified as the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit? In this regard, the prosecution is known to be extremely opposed, and some seem to have doubts about whether the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit can properly investigate.

{이고}That's right. Inside the prosecution, in fact, the prosecution has already secured important people. In the case of former Minister Kim Yong-hyun, he will have relevant personal or material evidence because the prosecution continued to investigate while in custody. Also, in the case of Yeo In-hyeong, the head of the counterintelligence command, he was arrested himself, so isn't it the prosecution that has evidence of statements about people who make very key statements? Therefore, in order to solve the last puzzle, an investigation into President Yoon Suk Yeol is essential, and there is inevitable opposition from within the prosecution as to whether it is reasonable and efficient in the investigation process to send it to the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit.

In addition, even if the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit investigates President Yoon Suk Yeol at the end of the day, the prosecution has the right to indict him, so it may be said that this is too formal a transfer. However, there is an internal opinion that if the prosecution directly investigated President Yoon Suk Yeol, it would be acceptable to the public as a convincing result of the investigation. There seems to be a lot of different opinions. Another concern in the prosecution is that it doubts whether the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit will be able to investigate President Yoon Suk Yeol well. In fact, 2,401 cases were filed with the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit last year, but 0 cases were indicted. And given that only one case was investigated and prosecuted by the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit by June this year, it can be difficult to properly construct a crime when the police are trying to secure physical evidence as much as possible and the prosecution is not properly investigating President Yoon Suk Yeol, which may be the last puzzle and key. There are also voices of concern that the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit will be able to investigate well.

[Anchor]
One of the reasons why this concern continues to emerge is that various raids are being denied because of the security services. If this happens, it seems that there is no choice but to continue to be a concern about destroying evidence. What do you think?

[Lee Heon-hwan]
In the case of the presidential office, there is a basis for rejecting the seizure and search part for legal reasons such as important matters of national security. However, given the seriousness of the current issue, such problems will continue to arise in connection with search and seizure or personal detention, and President Yoon Suk Yeol said he would not avoid legal and political responsibility as much as possible, so I think it is appropriate to take such measures to ensure that such investigations are conducted in an appropriate way.

If you tell me about the part that the prosecution transferred the investigative power to the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit this time, strictly speaking, the prosecution has no right to investigate this case. Nevertheless, the prosecution has made a lot of efforts to investigate, and even if an investigation is conducted by an agency that does not have the authority to investigate and then a prosecution is filed, in the most extreme case, the court may dismiss the prosecution itself. So, as the prosecution investigated the abuse of authority in relation to the question of whether it had the right to investigate this case, it went to the extent of civil war. That in itself is an inappropriate argument that, in fact, is not very valid from a legal point of view. We can see this in the United States and in other countries, for example, related to the Supreme Court of criminal justice.

[Anchor]
Lastly, I think we need to look at the person named Geonjin Beopsa and wrap it up. The name is Jeon Sung-bae, a health judge who was arrested urgently for violating the Political Fund Act. What kind of person is this person as he is known to have known President Yoon and his wife to some extent? And I wonder what charges you are undergoing a warrant review, so please point it out.

{이고}He is 64 years old. It is estimated that Jeon Sung-bae has a very close and very friendly relationship with the Yoon Suk Yeol President and his wife. In fact, Jeon also served as an advisor to Kobana Content operated by First Lady Kim Gun-hee in 2014. He was also active in the Yoon Suk Yeol camp in the last presidential election. However, the charges currently arrested are not this part, but the predecessor of the people's power during the 2018 Yeongcheon mayoral election in Gyeongsangbuk-do. He has been arrested on charges of violating the Political Fund Act for receiving about 100 million won from several preliminary candidates of the Liberty Korea Party in the name of nominating political funds. But Jeon's argument is like this. Although the prosecution claims that I returned all the money because an independent candidate was elected, the prosecution believes that I returned only a part of the money.

[Anchor]
The prosecution is said to have secured several of Jeon's mobile phones, and we will have to wait and see what comes out of this. So far, I have been with Professor Lee Hun-hwan and lawyer Lee Go-eun of Ajou University Law School. Thank you.