The investigation that stopped before the president...Yoon, shall we go to the 2nd round?

■ Host: Chang Won-seok Anchor
■ Starring: Lee Jong-hoon, Political Critic, Cha Jae-won, Special Professor of Busan Catholic University

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN Newswide] when quoting.

[Anchor]
On the weekend, the first weekend since the impeachment motion of Yoon Suk Yeol's president was passed, the investigation into the slow-down war has stopped in front of the president. We are interested in whether we will respond to the request for attendance of this book on Christmas. Let's take a look at the political situation with Lee Jong-hoon, a political critic, and Cha Jae-won, a special professor at Busan Catholic University. Welcome, two of you. The president, who said he would take legal and political responsibility, is not even receiving documents from the investigative agency, so how did you see it a week after the impeachment was passed?

[Jonghun Lee]
At first, President Yoon Suk Yeol thought it might be because his lawyers were not yet set up, but recently, he is strategically using a delay strategy. There's a lot of talk about that. In any case, the longer the Constitutional Court's impeachment proceedings are held, the more opportunities there will be. It's said that they're thinking like this. Also, in April, two of the Constitutional Court justices quit. So if it becomes a four-person system, isn't it actually a situation where you can't decide? With that in mind, the presidential office is responding accordingly by delaying the nomination of three constitutional judges by the National Assembly. Aren't you using some kind of air-conditioning tactics? Even this analysis is coming out.

[Anchor]
Not long ago, it was the president's birthday in Yoon Suk Yeol, so we receive wreaths, but there are places that print media stories like this. How did you see it?

[Jonghun Lee]
First of all, the president's office doesn't confirm the receipt of the wreath, so I don't know if I returned it or not.Ma is like that in my opinion. To be honest, I think the president has no shame. The Republic of Korea is really falling into the abyss because of one president's arbitrary and unconstitutional emergency martial law, and isn't everyone suffering because of this situation? If that's the case, you can't behave like this if you're really shy. And I think the other thing is self-contradiction. According to President Yoon's statement on December 22, why did he say he did emergency martial law? There is absolutely nothing wrong with the law because he has duly done emergency martial law. I told you I'd stand up to it. However, if he sees the president's actions now, he has no intention of responding to the impeachment trial and no intention of responding to the investigation. I can't help but think that it's a really cowardly attitude. That's why I think the people's power is collapsing more.

[Anchor]
The Joint Investigation Headquarters issued a second summons notice to President Yoon Suk Yeol, which was virtually rejected in the first round. Will it come out on Christmas this time?

[Jonghun Lee]
There is no clear word yet. However, there is a high possibility that they will reject it again this time, and the cooperation center is also seeing it. So what are you going to do after that? Will you ask for a third attendance? Or will you get a warrant and go into arrest right away? It is said that he is considering this, but it is said that he is considering the request for an arrest warrant itself. So, based on the attitude of President Yoon Suk Yeol so far, the possibility of voluntarily attending or attending is slim, and I think it is highly likely that the arrest will be made immediately.

[Anchor]
The arrest warrant card was also mentioned in the collaboration, but it would be burdensome. What do you think?

[Borrowing]
That's right. There are definitely burdensome aspects. And from the president's point of view, a lawyer must be appointed to exercise his right to defend himself, but he cannot respond to the investigation because it is a situation that is not in place.Aren't there various testimonies and evidence related to the president's act of civil war? Since the public's anger is also increasing considerably, I don't think the investigation authorities can ignore these parts at all. And the investigation was unified into the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit.Didn't the prosecution also do this investigation just before Ma? I sent a request for attendance to the President of Yoon Suk Yeol twice. And I already sent the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit once. Usually, it is customary to request an arrest warrant if you do not respond to three requests for attendance, but there is a burden on whether you will do so.If you think of the anger of the people, I think it will not be easy to hesitate even in the cooperative version.

[Anchor]
There are various methods of investigation, such as attending in person or conducting a business trip survey at a third place. Which one do you think is the most likely?

[Jonghun Lee]
If you presuppose that you will voluntarily attend, wouldn't you think of it in the direction of providing convenience as much as possible? So in the case of the third place that the president wanted or Kim Gun-hee last time, there was a bit of controversy.Isn't that how Ma is known to have been investigated at a third place? You may be able to take that approach. That's what I think. But the truth is, President Yoon Suk Yeol himself has investigated a lot as a prosecutor, and at the time of former President Park Geun Hye's impeachment, didn't he also lead the special prosecutor's investigation team? So, for those who investigate and juniors, I think it would be better to attend in person if possible and be investigated at the joint headquarters site, and I think it would be more confident.

[Anchor]
If you look at the request for attendance in the collaboration book, President Yoon Suk Yeol was designated as the head of the civil war. As the investigation continues now, testimonies continue to emerge that various presidents have intervened, how do you rate this?

[Borrowing]
These are the so-called so-called so-called so-called so-called so-called so-called so-called so-called so-called testimonies pouring in. I think the case is becoming more and more like a mob of insurgents, as you literally said, because those statements are pouring out, not others, but direct orders from the president or before. Insurrection is a riot aimed at disorderly affairs of the National Constitution. If the reason why they deployed troops to the National Assembly after declaring the emergency martial law last time is to make the National Assembly's right to demand the emergency release incompetent and deprive them of their power, I think this is a matter of national constitution. In this regard, Special Forces Commander Kwak Jong-geun told them to bring down lawmakers unconditionally. In the case of Lee Jin-woo, four people told him to pull down one by one. In the case of Hong Jang-won, the first deputy chief of the National Intelligence Service, operate an arrest team to catch all of them. If I see such a story, I think I literally gave directions that are almost like riots for the purpose of the National Constitution.

[Anchor]
However, President Yoon's side is engaged in a public opinion war, starting with lawyer Seok Dong-hyun, saying that President Yoon has not even taken out his arrest. What kind of intent should I say this is?

[Jonghun Lee]
You want to avoid rebellion somehow. I think that's what I think. When President Yoon explained for 28 minutes last time, didn't he keep emphasizing that this was a legitimate act of governance? So it's not a crime of rebellion. Because isn't there a huge difference in sentence between rebellion and abuse of authority? President Yoon Suk Yeol knows that better than anyone else. That's why we're using a defense strategy to avoid rebellion as much as possible. I wonder if lawyer Seok Dong-hyun's explanation this time is helpful. Looking at it, it doesn't add much to the fact that you haven't even paid the mandate yet, and if someone who is not representative comes out and keeps talking about that, it doesn't really help. That's what I think. I think it would be better for President Yoon to confidently respond to the investigation and say what he has to say in the current situation. Anyway, I think it's hard to avoid rebellion. So he says he never talked about the details of his arrest, but he's already talked to a lot of people on the phone. The phone records are at least there. The call records remain before the call details, and the time when the call was intensively made was when martial law forces entered the National Assembly. Would you have called martial law commanders like that to say hello at that point? That's not possible. Therefore, such circumstances alone have effectively revealed that President Yoon has already been directly involved. Perhaps President Yoon knows well because he has investigated it. I don't know if it's because I want to avoid it more because I know how it will be recognized when I go to the court, but there are things that can be avoided and things that cannot be avoided. In my view, things like this are inevitable. Even if you take legal action on the premise of that, I think it would be lower to respond.

[Anchor]
On the other hand, yesterday, Moon Sang-ho, the intelligence commander who is accused of ordering the NEC to send troops, was arrested. Colonel Jeong's confession and apology of the so-called hamburger meeting. According to this, they discussed how to use cable ties and headscarves to control the election committee. This seems to be an important testimony to prove the national constitution or allegations.

[Borrowing]
I think it's definitive testimony. I think he may have realized the seriousness of this issue late and is confessing truthfully, but it was Roh Sang-won, the former commander of intelligence who actually led that hamburger meeting. The reason why the former intelligence commander instructed me to prepare a cable tie and a headscarf was to arrest about 30 NEC employees who were going to work the day after martial law was declared and imprison them in a B1 bunker in Subang. Why did he order that action? In my opinion, if this situation actually happened, wouldn't the general election watchdog staff literally panic? If you were caught on the spot and moved to a place you didn't know at all with your hands covered with a headscarf, how big would the fear have been? The question is, what will happen after the people who plotted are horrified by the election watchdog employees? There will be this truth about the so-called rigged election they are thinking of. If so, wouldn't he have been drawing a huge picture of proving the election fraud by the NEC and taking a clue and nullifying it until the last general election? If you were painting such a picture, I think this is a crime of national constitution that will truly be a nation.

[Anchor]
Roh Sang-won, former intelligence commander at the center of the so-called hamburger joint meeting. When I was at a hamburger restaurant, I was a civilian. He was a soldier who was discharged from the military, but the police found a notebook at the former commander Roh's home, and it is known that it contains details such as the deployment of military units after martial law. I think this will be a great proof. What do you think?

[Jonghun Lee]
In fact, it's very likely to be a smoking gun. The NEC is not the only issue related to martial law. First of all, trying to neutralize the National Assembly. That's the core of the rebellion, but in fact, it's actually a bunch of trying to occupy the NEC. We can't keep lawmakers, especially opposition lawmakers, for a long time, assuming they've been arrested and imprisoned on a large scale. Something needs to be named, and it's possible to punish them by binding them together and applying the same crime to dozens of people. Isn't it only related to fraudulent elections? That's why I think I was more obsessed with the NEC. So, in a word, all of these people were elected because of North Korea's hacking. The last general election should be annulled and a new election should be held. I think I was going to drive it like this. However, I think they established a grand plan, but because the basic premise was wrong, I think there was a situation where the hands and feet did not match well in the process of proceeding with the work. And since you're keeping your security, isn't it hard to practice in advance? As a result, I wonder if there were actually a lot of gaps here and there, and the people feel more relieved that they confess like this even though it's late.

[Anchor]
Another questionable part was that the discharged soldiers, or civilians, acted independently among active generals, although they were former. How did you see this?

[Borrowing]
I really don't understand this part. In fact, the intelligence command itself has confidentiality, so it has been an organization that the general public does not know well. That's why I thought that the more I did, the more established a considerable command system and discipline would be properly strict, but it turns out that's not the case. Why was a former commander discharged from the military? In fact, he was the one who sexually harassed a female soldier and received a year and a half in prison for that. It's not a retired soldier, it's a retired soldier. If a person like this still puts a straw in the intelligence command and pursues his or her various interests, and when he or she is in the office, he or she can move through relationships and networks, this is the complete collapse of the military's command system. These are truly shocking facts. And the problem is that if the intelligence command has been reduced to a tool for a huge national conspiracy with this system of command falling completely, I think this is one element that needs to be corrected urgently.

[Anchor]
Former commander Roh Sang-won is also known to have run fortune tellers after being discharged from the military in disgrace. Various names are mentioned in this administration, but how do you rate the continuous appearance of shamans and counter-souchers?

[Jonghun Lee]
That's what I'm saying. Shouldn't we see this as a normal situation? It's even more absurd to say that very abnormal things have happened and that things have been tolerated. I think this person probably studied epidemiology while attending a temple after being discharged from the military in disgrace. It is known that he is living with people he met and running a station bar, and he seems to have seen the fortune teller from time to time, but I think other people saw the fortune teller and a woman saw the fortune teller. And it is said that former commander Roh Sang-won acted a little like a general secretary. But as this is revealed this time, various stories are coming out at the same time. There are also rumors that military officials came and went, so I think it is a case where they have greatly expanded their influence within the military by utilizing magic and their background. But why were active-duty soldiers so vulnerable to this? I think there are some parts that we will think about once again. And the truth is, when a disgraced discharged person tries to influence outside like this, an internal alert is usually issued. Look out for this man. Or, we check and inspect whether there will be noise in that regard, but it is very worrisome to say that even such a function has not actually functioned. As expected, in the case of former commander Roh Sang-won, I think this was possible because the background was solid with former Minister Kim Yong-hyun and other vulgar words.

[Anchor]
Let's take a closer look at the political news. As his duties have been suspended due to the impeachment of the president, acting president Han Deok-soo's actions are drawing attention every day. Both the ruling and opposition parties seem to be pressing in their favor. Let's listen to it.

[Lee Jae-myung / Minjoo Party leader: Unfortunately, acting president Han Deok-soo is vetoing the bill. In other words, President Yoon Suk Yeol has repeatedly ignored the legislative power of the National Assembly. I hope that the independent counsel law will be quickly promulgated according to the will of the people. ]

[Kwon Seong-dong / Acting Representative of People's Power and Floor Leader: National defense and security are the basic orders that support the nation and are the foundation for the protection of the Constitution. Therefore, the appointment of the Minister of Defense and the Minister of Public Administration and Security is urgent. ]

[Anchor]
The six bills, including the acting Han Deok-soo and the Grain Act, vetoed, and now attention is being paid to the independent counsel's independent counsel and the independent counsel's law. What do you expect to do with this?

[Jonghun Lee]
So, if divided largely, it can be viewed as a policy issue and a political issue. Therefore, acting Han Deok-soo can exercise his veto power to some extent on policy issues. Looking at it like this, will he really veto political issues? It is actually an act of governance to veto political matters. So, it is about whether acting Han Deok-soo will actively exercise what is equivalent to an act of governance, but what is being said now is that he may selectively exercise it. It is hard to reject the Insurrection Special Prosecutor Act, so we will promulgate it as it is and exercise our veto power in the case of the Kim Special Prosecutor Act. That's what's being said right now. That's why the Democratic Party of Korea is very nervous and is watching closely. As you know, the permanent special prosecution law has been passed on the Democratic Party's side. So, a recommendation committee was also established in the National Assembly regarding the permanent special prosecution. When a recommendation committee is formed, in fact, the president or acting president must immediately request the recommendation of the special prosecutor. Then, if the National Assembly recommends it within five days and raises two people to the president, the president will choose one of them. Now acting Han Deok-soo can do that. So I'm waiting for that. So, acting representative Han Deok-soo should first request the recommendation of the special prosecutor regarding the permanent special prosecution law, but I think the Democratic Party will take action after seeing whether it does it or not. If you don't do it, then it is very likely that you will begin the impeachment proceedings. That's expected.

[Anchor]
You said that you would deal with policy bills and political bills separately, how did you hear it?

[Borrowing]
In terms of policy, the Democratic Party seems to have accepted that it cannot be helped with the veto of the grain management law. After all, the political issue is the bill of the general special prosecutor and the special prosecutor of Kim Gun-hee. I think acting Han Deok-soo needs to accept the general special prosecution. As we said earlier, the incumbent president is being severely accused of being a rebellion mob. If so, the investigation into this should be created with a subject that can investigate quickly and independently and objectively. Of course, the investigation itself, such as the prosecution, the police, and the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit racing, was unified into one Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit.Ma, as you know, is quite lacking in the investigation capabilities of the investigation. And if the size of the investigation itself is insufficient, it is necessary to introduce a special prosecutor and push ahead with this investigation part in a speedy manner. In particular, in the case of acting Han Deok-soo, he is a participant in the Cabinet meeting when the emergency martial law was declared on December 3rd. So, once you are suspected of conspiring to commit rebellion, if you really try to be confident, you need to accept this part without making a quick decision. The problem is the special prosecutor's right to recommend. If it is unconstitutional on the part that only the opposition party recommends, please coordinate this part so that a third party can recommend it through an agreement. I think it's one way to make a request first. And the Special Prosecutor Act related to First Lady Kim Gun-hee. This has already been re-determined three times by the National Assembly, but when it was voted on for the third time, it was just two votes short. If so, even if it is rejected this time, I think it will probably pass when it is a re-decision. If so, I think it is necessary to accept matters that are an element of such political strife.

[Anchor]
Acting President Han Deok-soo is at a critical juncture not only over the demand for reconsideration of the bill but also over the appointment of a constitutional judge. The Democratic Party of Korea is coming Monday, Monday, and Tuesday. The plan is to hold a constitutional judge hearing, but the ruling and opposition parties are sharply divided. What do you think of this?

[Jonghun Lee]
So, the Democratic Party is moving quickly with the goal of quickly appointing three constitutional judges recommended by the National Assembly to operate the Constitutional Court as a whole of nine members. The power of the people is that even if the National Assembly processes the appointment consent, it is the authority to appoint acting authority Han Deok-soo. They have such differences of opinion, but it's because they have different interests. As I said a while ago, President Yoon is using a delay strategy at a time when he has no intention of cooperating with the Constitutional Court's deliberation process and the police or cooperation headquarters' investigation, and the public's power seems to be in line with it. In such a situation, we should oppose the appointment of three constitutional judges recommended by the National Assembly to the end. That's why we're doing that, but the people's power should keep in mind what they think. My health department is now becoming more and more distant from the people. They say that they are cooperating with President Yoon because of their immediate interests, but if they continue to cooperate, they may eventually collapse together. I think we should keep that in mind. Isn't it right to operate any system normally? It is the same in any case. So, if the Constitutional Court is unstable, it is the role of the Legislative Assembly to quickly operate the six-member system as a whole. I think so.

[Anchor]
The political movement of the ruling and opposition parties will also change depending on the choice of acting Han Deok-soo, what do you think?

[Borrowing]
When it comes to the appointment of a constitutional judge, I don't think acting Han Deok-soo needs to worry about this either. In fact, it's up to the National Assembly's recommendation. Then, the appointment of the president itself is actually an act of formality. If the National Assembly agrees to approve it, I think it would be an act that is consistent with the status quo. And some say that in the case of the power of the people, the case can only be exercised if the president's impeachment is cited and the real vacancy is in the position of the acting president. In fact, why do you say that the issue is possible even after the president's vacancy? I think it's literally nothing more than an impeachment trial.

[Anchor]
Let's also look at the internal situation of the ruling party. Now, after the resignation of Han Dong-hoon, the internal feud seems to be getting more and more intensified. The emergency committee chairman has been undecided for a week, and there are various one-top systems such as Kwon Young-se, Na Kyung-won, and Kwon Sung-dong, so what do you think?

[Jonghun Lee]
Let's gather opinions from each player. So, I think the collection of opinions is roughly finished. As a result, it is not desirable for Kwon Sung-dong, the floor leader and acting representative, to also serve as the chairman of the emergency committee. It is said that the opinion that it is difficult to respond in a situation where a lot of current issues arise has become mainstream. So, first of all, it seems that the two-top system rather than one-top system has been decided to appoint a separate chairman of the emergency committee. Then, it is about who will be the emergency committee chairman, but non-party personnel are almost excluded. At the same time, two people, Kwon Young-se and Na Kyung-won, who were mentioned a while ago as party members, are mainly being named. The final decision has not yet been finalized because the floor leader Kwon Sung-dong said he would reveal it at the general meeting next week after adding a little to his concerns until the end. I think we should look at it like this. But you have to think carefully. I want to say that. So, I said a little while ago that the power of the people is showing too much sympathy with the president of Yoon Suk Yeol, but I also pointed out that by doing so, it becomes more distant from the people. In this regard, the fact is that this emergency committee chairman should really appoint an innovative emergency committee chairman. That way, if there is no opportunity for the power of the people in the future, the opportunity will be further and further away. I think so.

[Anchor]
Let's take a look at yesterday's Gallup survey. If you look at the support rate of the Democratic Party of Korea and the people, it is exactly twice the difference. Nevertheless, it seems to be still unchanged compared to the collapse of support during the 2016 Saenuri Party, so how do you analyze it?

[Borrowing]
Well, according to Gallup polls right now, it seems clear that some sort of conservatives are united.The question is how long will that public opinion itself be sustainable? My head is tilting at that point. Now, President Yoon says that martial law is justified and has considerable logic, but the behavior he has shown since then is showing quite an uncompromising attitude. The public's anger over this is growing, so even from the perspective of supporters who tried to see President Yoon's actions in a good way, it is inevitable to be shaken. In fact, given that President Yoon's actions are highly likely to be cited when he goes to the Constitutional Court, I think that if the early presidential election comes into play, it will be difficult to regain power from the perspective of the people's power, there is a possibility that the rally of supporters will be disturbed.

[Anchor]
The next presidential preference survey seems to reveal the current political situation. Representative Lee Jae-myung took the overwhelming first place. Former CEO Han Dong-hoon, Daegu Mayor Hong Joon Pyo only accounted for 5%, so how are you analyzing it?

[Jonghun Lee]
What stands out most is that former CEO Han Dong-hoon's low approval rating has dropped sharply. It's about halfway down. As far as I know, in the previous survey, about 9% came out, but it fell out completely. Then why did it fall out? This is because expectations for CEO Han Dong-hoon have turned into a lot of dissatisfaction. That's how you can see it. Nevertheless, CEO Han Dong-hoon's potential as a presidential candidate still remains. I think that's a factor that supports the party's approval rating of the people's power. So if you look at the support for President Yoon Suk Yeol alone, it will be in the 10% range. It is likely that the reason why Han Dong-hoon remains at 20 percent is because the party members who still like Han Dong-hoon or the supporters have not given up hope yet. I think so.

[Anchor]
I see. Let's stop here today. Lee Jong-hoon was a political critic and Cha Jae-won, a special professor at the Catholic University of Busan. Thank you both.