[Politics ON] "Excluding the crime of rebellion"...Yeo, "We have to make a resolution" vs Hey, "Inside Kwonseong-dong, Southern Buddha"

■ Hosted by: anchor Lee Harin
■ Appearance: Kim Hyung-joon, chair professor at Bae Jae-dae, head of InSight K Research Center, Bae Jong-chan

* The text below may differ from the actual broadcast content, so please check the broadcast for more accurate information. Please specify [YTN NewsON] when quoting.

[Anchor]
"Politics On," which looks into the outside and inside of politics, today, with Kim Hyung-joon, chair professor at Bae Jae-dae, and Bae Jong-chan, director of Insight K Research Institute, we will analyze the political conflict over the "impeachment political situation" and "excluding the crime of rebellion." Today, the last day of the execution of the arrest warrant for President Yoon, the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit was noisy all day when it suddenly decided to transfer the execution of the arrest warrant for President Yoon to the police. Let's hear from the ruling and opposition parties. To put it simply, we will continue to lead the investigation, so the police should arrest them directly. It's like this. Have you ever had a case like this?

[KIM HYEONGJUN]
It's unusual. In the end, there were no such detailed regulations when the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit was created at first, which could come from the adjustment of the investigative rights of the prosecution and police. So even now, starting with whether the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit has the authority to investigate the crime of rebellion or not, according to Article 24 of the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit Act, it can be delegated what other investigative agencies have done, but does it have its own authority to conduct command? In my view, the things that ask the police to execute are not clear in the law, so there is a part about overpowering if done wrong, and from the police's point of view, the arrest warrant requested by the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit is illegal and illegal because the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit does not have the authority to investigate the crime of rebellion. In severe cases, there is also a risk that the police can become a kind of subordinate agency of the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit, so I don't think it will be easy for the police to accept this.

[Anchor]
He said it was not easy to accept, but the police said there was a legal flaw and said they would execute additional arrest warrants with the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit while maintaining the existing joint investigation headquarters system. In the end, the police and the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit set up a joint investigation headquarters, but traffic was not organized in it.

[Bae Jong Chan]
That's what I'm saying. It kind of became a happening. It's a happening where you don't get much, and you've lost more trust. He's being criticized by both the ruling and opposition parties. Earlier, Kwon Young-se, chairman of the People's Power Emergency Response Committee, even used the expression of the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit as a subordinate of the Democratic Party. However, he was criticized by the Democratic Party of Korea. If the story of the impeachment of Senior Superintendent of Airborne Affairs Oh Dong-woon was mentioned, he acted inappropriately. There's no justification. And as Professor Kim Hyung-joon said earlier, the function of the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit is to execute the arrest warrant directly.

Then the police will apply. As a result, it was passed down to the content. So, even if you look at the relevant law or see it as a practice, or even if you look at it as a common sense in a severe, unconvincing, severe, severe, and so on, you can't understand it.

[Anchor]
As you said, the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit is being criticized by both the ruling and opposition parties, but President Yoon, who is subject to arrest, is also protesting. What kind of construction subcontracting is it? He protested like this and pointed out that it was another illegal act.

[KIM HYEONGJUN]
Manager Bae said the exact two terms. It's the difference between enforcement and support. It's right that the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit should execute it now. However, according to the cooperative version, each is a national institution, but it means that they cooperate with each other. The support is right, but there is inevitably a considerable gap in the request for execution, and President Yoon Suk Yeol seems to be pointing out that now. For example, the part about whether the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit that we are talking about now can have that unwavering power. There's no choice but to be in sharp conflict.

In the end, if you take it according to the principle, the person who requested the warrant is the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit. The Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit should be in charge of enforcement. Another thing that ended in failure in the process of executing the arrest warrant last time, but there is a point that could be problematic later on is whether the police task force can be mobilized to execute the arrest warrant. That's also not clearly stated. If the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit requests the police for everything just because they apply, should the police follow them unconditionally?

[Anchor]
Didn't you say you could ask for cooperation?

[KIM HYEONGJUN]
Even if you can make a request, you're executing it now. Since there are parts that the subject of execution should still be the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit, the subject of execution beyond that is the police. Then I'd rather hand everything over to the police from the beginning. Don't the police have the power to investigate the crime of rebellion? Then let's go with the standard. If the police, who have the right to investigate the crime of rebellion, are in charge of the investigation and proceed with it, there is a possibility that various discord and conflicts that are being discussed now may not occur. Furthermore, President Yoon Suk Yeol is saying that he will go out and explain when an arrest warrant is requested, so I think the position of the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit should be clear about this quickly.

[Anchor]
In the beginning, the president protested that he did not have the authority to execute the warrant because he did not have the right to investigate the rebellion against the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit. So, in opposition to the attempt to execute the arrest warrant, he filed a complaint with the Seoul Central District Prosecutors' Office against 11 people, including Chief of Public Offenses Oh Dong-woon.

[Bae Jong Chan]
It's a situation between the two sides. The last arrest warrant was executed on Friday the 3rd. Then it's not a matter of whether this is right or wrong in the face of confronting any of the people watching the scene of the arrest warrant being executed in that situation. I don't think many people thought enforcement could go ahead. Because there's a huge shortage of troops compared to the security service. The people who went to arrest them. So if you don't say you're going to comply with the arrest, will it be that arrest? At least, it would have been in line with common sense that the response of the people and citizens right away would be possible only when at least 3,000 to 5,000 people were dispatched. Then this is what it is. Oh Dong-woon, the head of the Airborne Division, must have already known that it would be impossible to execute an arrest warrant with this force.

Then, wouldn't Director Oh Dong-woon know that? Then there should have been some other alternative. Then how do you approach it? Then, the arrest warrant itself cannot be executed. So what else can we do? In any way, the ultimate purpose is that the arrest warrant has been issued because he has not responded to the request for attendance. Then, in other ways, a written survey or a door-to-door survey. Then, if full attendance is required, when, when, where, and how can we reasonably call them to attend and conduct an investigation? There are more than 100 pages of questions. Okay. Will that be possible in one day?

If the investigation is conducted with one or another lawyers. So, considering the people and the level of our people, there should be measures that match it. Why can't we just confront each other in a camp-style match when we know why it won't work and there is a high possibility that it won't work? Then I think we need to find a solution. Then how to approach the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit with the police. Also, the president of Yoon Suk Yeol cannot just reject it. The security chief can't just reject it. Then, which contact point should we find? At a certain point, they respond to the investigation in some way. In addition, the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit draws out the investigation. This point of contact should be the most reasonable, realistically plausible way to do it.

[Anchor]
Arresting was difficult anyway. So you pointed out that you should have gone to a third place or conducted a visit survey, but if you investigate in a third place, will the opposition party or the public accept this?

[Bae Jong Chan]
Of course, that's possible. But the important thing is the difference between the legitimate and the realistic. Then, we cannot unconditionally judge and execute everything based on emotion. Both camps in Hannam-dong now have very different ideas. But is it all right or legitimate to follow either side? It's hard to judge like this. So how do you get closer to getting as much as you can to what you actually want to get? This is to say that we need another solution, an approach, and a solution.

[Anchor]
He pointed out that we need to find a realistic solution. Let's take a look at the political reaction. The ruling party continues to argue that the arrest warrant itself is unconstitutional and illegal because it does not have the authority to investigate rebellion at the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit. That's why we're repeatedly calling for a voluntary investigation. On the other hand, the Democratic Party pointed out the incompetence and indecision of the head of the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit and said, "Execute the warrant today."

[KIM HYEONGJUN]
In fact, there has been a voluntary investigation in the past, and in the case of representative Lee Jae-myung, related to political figures, the charges are clarified when the warrant is dismissed, but didn't he eventually reject the warrant because he had a job as the leader of the opposition party? In the case of former representative Cho Kuk, he was not arrested in court in order to give him the right to defend himself in the second trial. The passport is saying that these parts are related to the voluntary investigation that they usually talk about, so they can do it as much as they want.

The opposition party emphasizes that they are suspected of rebellion because of the explosive nature of the crime of rebellion, and asks them to immediately arrest them, and on the other hand, the Constitutional Court excludes the impeachment related to the crime of rebellion, so what is the focus on after all? After all, isn't there another purpose? So, in the end, there are parts that distort with different political purposes, rather than penetrating the essence of a real situation, and in the end, there is inevitable confusion among the people. And things about this part need to be resolved to some extent quickly. You can just go that far.

Shouldn't we leave the investigation of rebellion to the police? But what's the reason why the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit has to do that? I don't understand that. Then, even though the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit has been capable of investigating and has enough personnel, isn't it being criticized for how people who can't investigate properly even though the special prosecutor Chae has been dragging his feet for more than a year can do such things as rebellion? So the most important lesson in the most acute conflict is to return to principle. If that happens, go out and look at it now. Why do you have to go to the Western District Court to issue an arrest warrant? You can just proudly do it to the central prosecutor's office.

It can be done according to the set principles, but since it is said that it can be justified with exceptions, doesn't that cause conflict again? After all, are you shopping for a judge? Like this. What the Korean people want from the entire political world is not grand. I'd like to tell you that chaos can be much lessened if you really go by legal procedures and principles.

[Anchor]
Arbitrary investigation is an argument that there is no coercion and that the principle of presumption of innocence should be applied. While the Senior Civil Servant Corruption Investigations Unit is being criticized by both the ruling and opposition parties, Kwon Young-se, chairman of the emergency committee, also mentioned that it is a frame of rebellion. Because of representative Lee Jae-myung, they are fighting for speed despite the destruction of the rule of law. This is the argument. On the other hand, Democratic Party Chairman Lee Jae-myung is pressuring Acting President Choi Sang-mok to hold him accountable, but is he tinkering with Choi Sang-mok's impeachment card again?

[Bae Jong Chan]
I believe that if even acting Chief Executive Choi Sang-mok is on the impeachment board, I will become critically anxious about the Republic of Korea. Because U.S. Secretary of State Tony Blinken is visiting Korea today. However, what Secretary Tony Blinken has already told in the United States trusts Korean democracy. And I said I believe in the system of acting chief executive Choi Sang-mok. But you can impeach acting president Choi Sang-mok for some reason. Because you don't give me the power to execute the arrest warrant quickly?

So there's no justification. So, even if you can criticize one thing or another, you are the acting president. Should we go with the flow of designated survivors? You'll get more anxious. And he appointed a constitutional judge. Now, what is solved by politics must be solved by politics, and we cannot continue to impeach or prosecute unconditionally. Of course, we can't restrict exercising it if it's necessary. But there's something like that. Or there is a probationary phase right now, which can make you more anxious. Soon, the new U.S. administration will be launched in about 15 days. And I really want to say this at the end. Get out of your way. The people will not allow each other to be forced to do so. Same thing.

President Yoon Suk Yeol should go through the steps and procedures prescribed by law as president of Yoon Suk Yeol. Just as unreasonable delays cannot win sympathy from the people, so does Representative Lee Jae-myung. Why are you suspicious? If it appears as if it is in a hurry and without justification, it is inevitable that it will continue to come out in such a hurry to crush the quick election and trial of representative Lee Jae-myung. So, in order not to be suspected of that, Representative Lee Jae-myung also needs to solemnly implement the procedure of time given to Representative Lee Jae-myung, whether it is trial or politics, in front of the people. So I'm begging you, please don't take your time and don't work with interests. Otherwise, the people have no choice but to suspect that this is approached with a political interest regardless of which way, and the label will follow and be evaluated someday.

[Anchor]
He said not to reveal each other's feelings with speed, but some lawmakers of the People's Power gathered in front of Hannam-dong's official residence this morning. I continued to claim that it was an illegal warrant. Let's see how the atmosphere was through the screen. In the meantime, Yoon Sang-hyun and former Rep. Kim Min have appeared often, but it is the first time that so many ruling party lawmakers have gathered at the rally. Representative Jang Dong-hyuk is one of them. You were a representative close-knit lawmaker, but did you change your mind now?

[KIM HYEONGJUN]
I don't think we're close anymore. Because they keep saying they kicked out CEO Han Dong-hoon, who kicks out CEO Han Dong-hoon? Of the five supreme council members, all resigned, two of whom were supreme council member Jang Dong-hyuk and Jin Jong-oh. Aren't they close friends? It collapsed when the close family resigned, not the pro-Yoon-gye kicked it out. Since then, there are parts where you can say that you have already changed your mind. I think the reason why so many lawmakers are participating is because of two changes.

First, as I said earlier, I think it's a great handshake to impeach acting Han Deok-soo, including that the Democratic Party will continue to use pressure cards on this and impeach acting acting Choi Sang-mok. So in the end, even in the United States, acting Han Deok-soo was encouraged by saying that he believes in the resilience of democracy, but if Han Deok-soo is replaced, the acting president Choi Sang-mok will probably go our way, right? There are some parts like that.

If you look at the results of the poll, there are signs of change slightly. For example, when people's support for power was impeached by the president in 2017, the Saenuri Party almost plummeted at the time. However, if you look at it now, you think that it is time for lawmakers in the ruling party to come forward and gather in Hannam-dong and express their opinions.

[Anchor]
Since you mentioned your approval rating, it would be nice to show the results of the poll released by Realmeter today in a graphic manner. A poll released by Realmeter showed a 34.4% approval rating for the nation's power. It went up slightly. Today, the ruling party's approval rating is recovering against the backdrop of pro-Yoon-gye rallying around lawmakers in the Yeongnam region. There was a voice that analyzed that it was related.

[Bae Jong Chan]
I think I need to look at the screen carefully. I'm sure conservatives rally around the recovery of the people's strength approval rating, which has fallen. What is the background of the conservatives gathering? Is it a gathering of conservatives to defend the emergency martial law of the president of Yoon Suk Yeol? Or is it risk perception of conservatives collapsing and rallying accordingly? I'm most likely the shock, horror, rallying against the collapse of the conservative base. So, don't you remember when the conservatives' approval rating of the people's power collapses? In 2016, the three national elections that followed the impeachment phase in 2017, the presidential election in 2017, the local election in 2018, and the 2020 parliamentary election. The pay is all down. It's broken. There's something that you shouldn't do like that. Another reason why the approval rating is recovering by nearly 35% is that the vigilance sentiment against representative Lee Jae-myung is in operation.

It's a concern that the clock of impeachment itself is going fast. Who is it for? Then we should rally. So if you look at the content of the banner, the Central Election Commission recognized it rather than the content of the president of Yoon Suk Yeol. Lee Jae-myung, you can't. This is the most common. It's the most in many parts of the country. So, the vigilance hearing on representative Lee Jae-myung has been activated, and if you can show me your approval rating, it would be good to show it one more time. According to the survey, the Democratic Party of Korea's approval rating has slowed down, and it has not been able to extend further from the impeachment phase.

[Anchor]
. It's down 0.8 percentage points.

[Bae Jong Chan]
This is what the people are warning about. This is the middle class. So, I understand that it is an impeachment phase and the Democratic Party is leading, but that doesn't mean that the people in the middle will continue to impeach the acting president and impeach him. But to tell you one thing, is the power of the people relieved? If there is a possibility that the approval rating of the people's power will rise to 40% or 42%, it may be a relief to some extent in the current situation, but if it is almost a rally now, it is still different from the Democratic Party. What 40 to 50 members of the People's Power in Hannam-dong must recognize is that the approval rating will be concentrated to a certain level. However, what should we do when we cannot unite beyond that level? You have to be able to answer this question as well.

[Anchor]
This is because of the sense of crisis over the division of remuneration due to the learning effect. And they analyzed that it is the effect of the conservatives gathering because of the vigilance against representative Lee Jae-myung. On the other hand, the Democratic Party of Korea released a report on the 3rd that the presidential security chief ordered the firing of live ammunition at the time of the execution of the arrest warrant for President Yoon. He criticized the power of the people, saying it was a low-quality conspiracy theory, but we will continue to listen to the voices of the ruling and opposition parties.

[Anchor]
Representative Yoon Gun-young said he received a tip that the Kim Gun-hee line took the lead in preparing 400 cable ties or considering the payment of live ammunition. In the same Democratic Party, Rep. Choo Mi-ae was ordered by the head of the security department, and Rep. Yoon Gun-young passed the head of the security department and Kim Gun-hee was ordered by the line. How should we look at the credibility?

[KIM HYEONGJUN]
If I say I got a report without giving a solid basis for the report, can I say it after I say what I want to say and then tell him it's a report? The biggest problem in Korean politics is that there is not much responsibility for that. Isn't it so? Think about it in that area. What is the situation now, and Kim Gun-hee's line works and can be done. Do you think it can be common sense? It's not like that. Then, for example, we received some information from the People's Power, and all of this was reported that the Korean Confederation of Trade Unions or even pro-North Korean forces were behind the scenes.

So can you believe that? In my opinion, when it comes out on the show, it's not just a tip-off, but when you're sure of your own confirmation and objective grounds, you have to talk about it. Everything is in the midst of Han-tangism, and when you say something, you're about to get your name published, so talking about political responsibility while ignoring the issue of political responsibility is bound to cause political distrust and hate. Please pass by a little bit. There is a high possibility that the power of the people will tell a new story just because they have been informed. You can't do politics like that.

[Anchor]
I was told to prepare live ammunition. In response to the Democratic Party's allegations, the security chief issued a very unusual video message and issued a public statement.

[Bae Jong Chan]
It's to explain and express more actively that it's unfounded. If you look at it now, there's a battle between the Democratic Party and the security chief. The essential thing would not be to order live fire or payment. So Professor Kim Hyung-joon also told me the fundamental story, so I'll keep it short. So what keeps being raised is that the parliamentary privilege should be eliminated. Get rid of even non-arrest and immunity. This is the key because being able to dig into conspiracy theories itself becomes a conspiracy-making situation.

The point is that what we need to review now is that the head of security is under the Security Act, and we will protect it because he is a sitting president. It's this. However, there is an opinion that the head of the bodyguard can be booked and the head of the bodyguard must attend, saying that the bodyguard can be arrested while the bodyguard is loosened. Then, in a way, this is a task that should be discussed intensively. What is the scope of the security chief? How much can you protect the president? In fact, would it be possible for the head of the security agency to protect the president who has been issued an arrest warrant until the end? If it is not possible, to what extent should we talk? This part has to be clear.

There should be a discussion on this part, but rather than this approach, is it Article 5 of the Security Act that says that the head of the security service will protect President Yoon Suk Yeol because he is an incumbent president, and is it correct that it will continue to be maintained? It would be more reasonable for this part to be reviewed.

[Anchor]
The possibility that the security service prepared to fire live ammunition is what the Democratic Party claims to have been tipped off. I would like to inform you that this is not confirmed. Controversy between the ruling and opposition parties is heating up over the National Assembly's impeachment investigation team's decision to effectively remove the crime of rebellion from the reason for President Yoon's impeachment. Following Kim Yong-tae, the emergency committee member, Lee So-young's voice will be heard and the conversation will continue. I think viewers will be quite confused. So the Democratic argument is like this. It's about leaving the act of rebellion intact and not being judged by the Constitutional Court whether this act violates the Constitution. The Hong Joon Pyo market criticized whether it was jajangmyeon without jajangmyeon.

[KIM HYEONGJUN]
In fact, in 2017, he was the head of the National Assembly's impeachment prosecution, right? It was like that then, too. Regarding the rebellion related to the President of Park Geun Hye, the crime related to coercion has been removed, so of course, it is said that only unconstitutional things are needed now, but I am mistaken for two things. The first thing is, did the opposition party oppose it then? If the ruling and opposition parties agree, they can take it out, for example. It's not that one side is doing it unilaterally. Aren't you trying to do it unilaterally right now?

There's a problem in that sense. I think the second bribery or coercion is not that serious, so I think it can be deducted to some extent, but now it is the most important crime of civil war in impeachment, but in the case of Representative Lee So-young, he seems to be unable to judge the situation. I'm not saying I took out impeachment. It was impeached because of the crime of rebellion, but it is rather advantageous to the ruling party because it is unnecessary. It is bound to be criticized for how such an accident can be made. In other words, if 70% of the total impeachment charges are related to rebellion and 30% are unconstitutional related to the emergency martial law, it is quite problematic depending on how it can be done so conveniently. If so, I would say that if the ruling and opposition parties agreed not to do so, of course, there may be a situation in which the National Assembly has no choice but to re-decide on the impeachment prosecution.

[Anchor]
That's why the ruling party even says that it's not a steamed bun without Angkor, but a steamed bun without a steamed bun, but it seems to be more controversial as the Constitutional Court recommended the withdrawal of the rebellion.

[Bae Jong Chan]
That's right. But the Constitutional Court has made it clear that it's not. If so, the Constitutional Court will also have concerns about this. However, considering these and other issues, it is correct that rebellion is included. There's a story of speed and time again. How much longer would it take if the crime of rebellion was reflected and this was not a judgment to the standard or level of punishment? In short, two things, the consequence is the seriousness of the rebellion in the grounds of impeachment. Judgment varies depending on political orientation, but so many people voted for impeachment through outdoor rallies. Of course, there are pros and cons.

If so, it must be very serious, whether or not you are guilty of rebellion. Another is the baseline of the impeachment resolution. Kim Sang-wook and Kim Jae-seop had no choice but to pass the impeachment motion because of this. Because it has to be judged by the Constitutional Court. Then, if the crime of rebellion was not included, it means that there are members of the People's Power who would not have voted for impeachment when they returned to December 14th. How long will it take if you think about those dimensions, more. Even with that in mind, inclusion of the crime of rebellion could be a wise choice that doesn't cause further controversy.

[Anchor]
In the end, the controversy is likely to continue so far as the ruling and opposition parties are sharply divided over the pace of the impeachment trial. He was joined by Kim Hyung-joon, chair professor of Bae Jae-dae, and Bae Jong-chan, head of InSight K Research Institute. Thank you.